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France Helps Russia Design Better Boats
   Next Article → WARPLANES: Reaper Finally Reaps Someone
October 30, 2007: French warship builder DCNS has made a deal with the Russian Krylov Shipbuilding Research Institute, to provide advanced submarine design technology. DCNS builds France's nuclear and diesel-electric submarines. This includes the new Barracuda class SSNs as well as the new Scorpene class AIP boats. The Scorpenes represent a new generation of non-nuclear submarines, like the Russian Amur/Lama, and the German Type 212, that have been entering service in the last few years. Unlike past non-nuclear submarines, which used diesel-electric plants, these new boats use fuel cells or other forms of air-independent propulsion (AIP). Germany commissioned its first Type 212 boat, using air-independent propulsion, two years ago. Four of these are being built. These are special boats, as they possess fuel cells (or AIP, Air Independent Propulsion) , which enable them to quietly operate underwater for weeks at a time. They still have diesel propulsion, but this is only used for surface travel. These AIP boats are also very quiet, quieter than most nuclear boats in service. This makes them an even match for a current nuclear boat equipped with better sensors.

 

The Scorpenes are 1,400 ton (surface displacement) boats, with a crew of 32. Each has six 21 inch torpedo tubes, and carries 18 torpedoes and/or missiles. The similar German 1,500 ton 212s, for example, are much smaller than nuclear boats (188 feet long, compared to 360 feet and 6,200 tons for the new U.S. Virginia class SSNs). The nuclear boats are used for a lot more than hunting other ships, and subs, while the 212s are mainly attack boats, and well designed and equipped for it.

 

The development of fuel cell technology for subs, and use of these boats, has become a mature technology, and will eventually be available to many more nations. These AIP boats are, expensive (about $600-700 million each), but that's less than a third the cost of a nuclear boats. These AIP boats are also highly automated, requiring a crew of only 30 or so. But with torpedoes and anti-ship missiles (launched from the tubes, as well as mines), they could be, in the wrong hands, a major threat to the U.S. fleet. Cheaper to buy, cheaper to run (you don't need as many skilled sailors for the crew) and very lethal, American admirals are watching very closely who gets their hands on this technology.

 

Next Article → WARPLANES: Reaper Finally Reaps Someone
  

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gf0012-aust       10/30/2007 5:51:52 AM
and in one fell swoop the french have just had the tech sharing access tap turned off with a few western countries I can think of....
 
what the hell goes through their head to do stuff like this????
 
I don't care if they're giving export rated gear, I wouldn't be giving the russians anything.  You'd think that they learned their lesson with the Chinese on this.
 
 
 
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Herald1234    Oh you've got to love this.   10/30/2007 5:53:05 AM
How do you spell dumb?
 
D.C.N.
 
Give your competitor exactly what he needs to throw you out of the market.
 
Sarkozy must be tearing his hair out.
 
THIS is what I mean by the rotten 1% ruining France.
 
Herald
 
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Sukhoi       10/30/2007 12:08:20 PM
Bush said that france was part of old europe, that was stupid! Now the french are making friends with america's old enemy, RUSSIA
 
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RockyMTNClimber    2nd time   10/30/2007 1:11:53 PM
If this is a true story, this will guarantee France's place in history.
 
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Dave_in_Pa    Dave in Pa.   10/30/2007 2:11:37 PM
Ah, yes, our "friends" and "allies", the French!  Tell me again why we saved their ***es twice???  And what we've gotten for it???
 
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Bluewings12       10/30/2007 2:14:11 PM
I understand your feeling Gentlemen because I feel the same too , but to a lesser degree .
For a start , Russia is not anymore an enemy of France and an enemy of the West . The Russians aren 't our friends yet but it look rather good , Russia will most surely never look at Europe as a threat .
The other Western Nations shouldn 't be sceptical or angry at France , really .

(more later , someone at the door)

Cheers .

 
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xwing    Article on SP...   10/30/2007 3:00:42 PM
There was an article not long ago about Russia named "Old habits die hard" I think. It looks like that not only in Russia...

 
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RockyMTNClimber    Hopefully this is an inaccurate story....   10/30/2007 3:14:04 PM

I understand your feeling Gentlemen because I feel the same too , but to a lesser degree .

For a start , Russia is not anymore an enemy of France and an enemy of
the West . The Russians aren 't our friends yet but it look rather good
, Russia will most surely never look at Europe as a threat .

The other Western Nations shouldn 't be sceptical or angry at France , really .



(more later , someone at the door)



Cheers .



I must admit there is very little information provided and no real sources for this accusation. I suppose it could be much a-do about nothing. IF however, France is about to give Russia a leap of information on how to silencesubs, improve fire-control systems, weapons, AIP advances, that make Russia more competitive it could be disasterous to the rest of the free world. Given that France didn't participate in the Cold War stand-off and defeat of the Soviets (they never agreed to defend NATO allies even though they arguably benefited from the Western Nations long and vigilant fight with the red bear) their particpation in Russian technology advances would be disturbing.
 
Russia (run by the former KGB boss Putin) is standing against the West in almost every way possible in a vain attempt to  to regain their lost grandure. Any technology passed to RUS will ultimately find its way to China, arm Iran/Syria, Venezuela, and the ususal cast of suspects.
 
This would be an odd way to seek better relations with NATO, UK, and US. Very odd.
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
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RockyMTNClimber    France deserves to be horse whipped!   10/30/2007 3:40:05 PM
 
ht***tp://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/cat/naval-equipment/submarines/

France's semi-private naval design & construction firm DCNS has signed a "purchase general contract" for R&D cooperation with Russia's the Krylov Shipbuilding Research Institute, via Rosoboronexport. It is an amplification of the Letter of Intent the two companies signed during the 2006 Paris Euronaval exhibition.

Work is expected to include "technical relationships for hydrodynamic studies and experimentations? for surface ships as much as for submarines is within the R&D scope of the general contract." DCNS release.

 
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Herald1234    Hurrah the 1%!   10/30/2007 4:36:39 PM
I was kind of hoping les despicables weren't actually going to be able to continue business as usual in France.
 
Oh well. 
 
SSDD.
 
Herald
 
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