Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Infantry Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: USMC and the british RMC
trikki    10/2/2004 1:22:05 PM
how come it take the Brits 32 weeks to turn out a marine whereas it only takes the usmc only 16 - surely it can't take that long to convert a british civilian into a decent soldier
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: PREV  1 2 3 4   NEXT
Ehran       2/2/2007 11:41:34 AM
gop one way to look at it is to consider that the usmc has upwards of a quarter million guys in it and the royal marines have a couple thousand.  the usmc trains units up to spec ops capable as they call it on a cyclical basis while with the royal marines that's the normal minimum standard for the entire force.
 
Quote    Reply

the British Lion       2/2/2007 12:20:45 PM
 
Why do people insist on comparing the U.S. Marines to the Royal Marines?!? They are not, I repeat NOT, equivalents. They R.M. are elite light infantry, the U.S.M. are superb medium infantry. Different categories, different missions, different standards. I doubt even most U.S. generals would claim the U.S. Marines are as elite as the R.M. But that's not their purpose. The U.S. Rangers are the American equivalent, not the marines.
 

So for goodness sake; Brits, stop dissing the U.S. Marines. They are exceptional at what they're trained to do.

And American's, stop claiming the U.S. Marines are better than the Royal Marines. They're trained to a higher standard because that's what their mission requires of them. Besides, the U.S.M. have Force-Recon, which I believe are elite. Wouldn't know how elite, but certainly top notch.

 

Regards,

 

B.L.

 

 
Quote    Reply

BadNews    Thank You   2/2/2007 11:19:39 PM

 

Why do people insist on comparing the U.S. Marines to the Royal Marines?!? They are not, I repeat NOT, equivalents. They R.M. are elite light infantry, the U.S.M. are superb medium infantry. Different categories, different missions, different standards. I doubt even most U.S. generals would claim the U.S. Marines are as elite as the R.M. But that's not their purpose. The U.S. Rangers are the American equivalent, not the marines.
 


So for goodness sake; Brits, stop dissing the U.S. Marines. They are exceptional at what they're trained to do.


And American's, stop claiming the U.S. Marines are better than the Royal Marines. They're trained to a higher standard because that's what their mission requires of them. Besides, the U.S.M. have Force-Recon, which I believe are elite. Wouldn't know how elite, but certainly top notch.


 


Regards,


 


B.L.


 



The SPECIAL OPERATIONS CAPABLE (SOC) designation for US Marine Expeditionary Units (MEU) are a disticnt list of 15 or so task that USMC units afloat must be capable of. (Embassy evacuation, amphious withdrawels, maritime intervention, limited amphibious assault, amphibiouis demonstration, TRAP (recovery f downed airmen -Remeber Scott Grady Affair - that was us!) and other such various missions. That is in NO WAY to be compared to Special Forces not even close, and is much different than the mission of the Royal Marines. Other than that, the USMC is actually a highly trained infantry force. I mean that not in the sense that the US Army, UK Army are not, because they also have such capable units. You know, the 82nd, the Black Watch Regiment, so on so on, all trained for specific scenarios, and also all used as conventional infantry when required.
Thank You BL, for saying what I have been feeling. This who is better argument that keeps re-appearing on these forums is really pointless. This thread really needs to die.
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

dirtykraut       7/31/2007 1:23:46 PM

gop one way to look at it is to consider that the usmc has upwards of a quarter million guys in it and the royal marines have a couple thousand.  the usmc trains units up to spec ops capable as they call it on a cyclical basis while with the royal marines that's the normal minimum standard for the entire force.



The USMC has 180,000 men and women.
 
Quote    Reply

JTR~~    listen to the british lion, the man talks sense   3/15/2010 3:34:57 PM

 

Why do people insist on comparing the U.S. Marines to the Royal Marines?!? They are not, I repeat NOT, equivalents. They R.M. are elite light infantry, the U.S.M. are superb medium infantry. Different categories, different missions, different standards. I doubt even most U.S. generals would claim the U.S. Marines are as elite as the R.M. But that's not their purpose. The U.S. Rangers are the American equivalent, not the marines.
 


So for goodness sake; Brits, stop dissing the U.S. Marines. They are exceptional at what they're trained to do.


And American's, stop claiming the U.S. Marines are better than the Royal Marines. They're trained to a higher standard because that's what their mission requires of them. Besides, the U.S.M. have Force-Recon, which I believe are elite. Wouldn't know how elite, but certainly top notch.


 


Regards,


 


B.L.


 


the rivalry should stop really (its slightly hipocritical to say this as i am partial to a bit of anglo american rivalry), but we both do well together, like he said RMC are and elite infantary unit much like the SAS (who are NOT a counter terrorist unit), the USMC are a well trained infantary corps whom undertake jobs the regualrs cant or will not do.
so yes us Brits should not be so high and mighty all the time, and Americans should sometimes be prepared to admit that they are not always the best at everything (stop it with the bias, its not helpful to anyone, naughty america ha-ha)
 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine       3/22/2010 11:26:37 PM



Why do people insist on comparing the U.S. Marines to the Royal Marines?!? They are not, I repeat NOT, equivalents. They R.M. are elite light infantry, the U.S.M. are superb medium infantry. Different categories, different missions, different standards. I doubt even most U.S. generals would claim the U.S. Marines are as elite as the R.M. But that's not their purpose. The U.S. Rangers are the American equivalent, not the marines.

So for goodness sake; Brits, stop dissing the U.S. Marines. They are exceptional at what they're trained to do.

And American's, stop claiming the U.S. Marines are better than the Royal Marines. They're trained to a higher standard because that's what their mission requires of them. Besides, the U.S.M. have Force-Recon, which I believe are elite. Wouldn't know how elite, but certainly top notch.

Regards,
B.L.


the rivalry should stop really (its slightly hipocritical to say this as i am partial to a bit of anglo american rivalry), but we both do well together, like he said RMC are and elite infantary unit much like the SAS (who are NOT a counter terrorist unit), the USMC are a well trained infantary corps whom undertake jobs the regualrs cant or will not do.

so yes us Brits should not be so high and mighty all the time, and Americans should sometimes be prepared to admit that they are not always the best at everything (stop it with the bias, its not helpful to anyone, naughty america ha-ha)


Sure the "Who's better than Who" is pointless & should stop.  But British Lion, who you quote, is Incorrect in his Description of the US Marine Corps. 
 
1) Is his statement that USMC Infantry is not a comparable Equivalent the RM, that would seem to disagree w/the Long Standing USMC/RM Exchange Program.
 
The same Ex Prg that has allowed several USMC officers to LEAD RM Commando Companies & Platoons as USMC Exchange Officers.  Among USMC Medal of Honor winner John Ripley & also former USMC Commandant PX (Paul) Kelley as Commander of "C" Troop, 42 Commando, Royal Marines.
 
2) The USMC Infantry is not Medium Infantry but Light Infantry which due to its Unique National Security Status & Range of Mission Tasking its equipped to conduct several short duration Medium Infantry mission.  That would be as Incorrect as saying that b/c the RM conducts Medium Missions w/their Warthog APC that they're Medium Infantry.
 
A Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) deploys w/3 Rifle Coys assigned 3, among many, different missions anywhere around the world's Littoral within 6hrs of notification:
A) Coy 1: Clandestine Amphibious Raid- OTH over-the-horizon, Clandestine Raid; using Zodiacs to conduct Short duration (Overnight) raids to Seize or Destroy Enemy Compounds or Personnel within 20miles of a Littoral Zone.
 
B) Coy 2: Deep Insertion Helo Raid- A Sea-Based 400+mile(not including ship-to-shore miles) Deep Helo Raid to Seize or Destroy Enemy Compounds or Personnel.
 
C) Coy 3: Amphibious Assault- A non-Clandestine Medium Infantry maneuver to Seize a Beach Head on hostile terrain for Follow on forces.
 
2 of these Missions are complex Light Infantry Missions, 1 is a Medium Infantry Mission.  Any one of these Coys are capable of any these missions.  
 
3)  False statement that RM is trained to a Higher Standard than US Marines.  WRONG AGAIN.  The Royal Marines maintain Higher Physical Fitness Standard than the USMC true, but thats where it ends. The RM routinely sends Drill Instructors to observe USMC Boot Camp & Vice Versa, & out of the Mouths of RM DI's the USMC's Boot Camp is an overall far more Intense Program (I'll Provide an Article).
 
Read your own British Newspapers fr/2yrs ago about how British Commanders were in awe of h
 
Quote    Reply

JTR~~       3/24/2010 3:33:51 PM








 






 

3)  False statement that RM is trained to a Higher Standard than US Marines.  WRONG AGAIN.  The Royal Marines maintain Higher Physical Fitness Standard than the USMC true, but thats where it ends. The RM routinely sends Drill Instructors to observe USMC Boot Camp & Vice Versa, & out of the Mouths of RM DI's the USMC's Boot Camp is an overall far more Intense Program (I'll Provide an Article).

 

im sorry but i disagree with this entirely, it is undisputable that the Royal Marines must be trained to a far higher quality than their American counterparts, the Royal Marine training course is 32 weeks long for each Marine, some specialise further in other areas eg snipers etc, and intense does not mean harder, or a training course that makes for better quality soldiers, it may be more intense in other areas, such as the speed of the training course, the nature of how the course is laid out etc.

on a final note, the Royal Marines assault course, the infamous Tarzan course has been attempted by US marines and other foreign forces many of which struggled to complete, acknowledging that it was one of the most difficult training courses that they had ever had to undertake.
regards

 



 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine    This is 1, there are more   3/29/2010 11:28:17 PM

The Royal Marines maintain Higher Physical Fitness Standard than the USMC true, but thats where it ends. The RM routinely sends Drill Instructors to observe USMC Boot Camp & Vice Versa, & out of the Mouths of RM DI's the USMC's Boot Camp is an overall far more Intense Program.


DI from across the pond visits RTR, compares Corps' training, traditions
 
MARINE CORPS RECRUIT DEPOT SAN DIEGO, Calif. (June 17, 2005) -- A British Royal Marine is on the depot to observe recruit training and get a taste of America's Corps.

Sgt. Christopher Morgan, a Royal Marine drill instructor, came to the depot on his own accord. His command granted the request.

"I wanted to come here and see the similarities and differences in our training," said Morgan. "I've seen quite a few interesting things."

Morgan, a 12-year veteran, said the aspect of training that intrigued him the most is the intensity between the drill instructors and recruits.

"When they pick up, the drill instructors go straight into it," remarked Morgan, 34. "Right off the bus, they are screaming and yelling. We do it completely differently."

By differently, Morgan means that Royal Marine drill instructors only yell at the recruits when they make mistakes vice yelling all the time like the American drill instructors.


"We aren't as intense, but our training is more physically demanding," said Morgan.
 
Training for the Royal Marines' is 32 weeks long. During that time, the drill instructors only live with the recruits for the first two weeks. After that, they go home at night and leave the recruits to themselves. In Britain, the drill instructors only teach drill. Weapons instructors and physical training instructors take care of the rest, according to Morgan.
 
"I think it's interesting that we are so intense, and the Royal Marines aren't, but we still achieve the same results," said Staff Sgt. Cory Gonya, Recruit Training Regiment scheduling chief, and Morgan's guide here. "I think if we added (School of Infantry) and the following school to recruit training, (American drill instructors) couldn't be as intense as we are now."

 

Next week, Morgan will head north to Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton, Calif., to see recruits execute field training and the Crucible. The Royal Marines have a culminating event too, but it's longer. They call it Commando Course, and it's a week long.

The Commando Course includes a 10-mile endurance course. It starts with a four-mile hike to a starting point. The hike is followed by a six-mile run in 32 pounds of gear. The course is enhanced with obstacles, and recruits have 78 minutes to complete it. It also features a nine-mile speed hike and a 30-mile march through the mountains of Dartmoor National Park with 50 pounds of gear and an eight-hour time limit.

Morgan, who has been here since June 1, has seen receiving, company pick up, Drill Instructor School, physical training and a graduation ceremony. He plans to leave at the end of the month.

"I've enjoyed having Sgt. Morgan here," said Gonya. "I've learned an incredible amount from him about the Royal Marines' traditions and history. I'd love to go to Britain and do the same thing."

Morgan also said he's enjoyed his time here.

"Everyone's been very friendly and helpful," said Morgan.


 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine    This is 1, there are more   3/30/2010 12:08:20 AM



The Royal Marines maintain Higher Physical Fitness Standard than the USMC true, but thats where it ends. The RM routinely sends Drill Instructors to observe USMC Boot Camp & Vice Versa, & out of the Mouths of RM DI's the USMC's Boot Camp is an overall far more Intense Program.





DI from across the pond visits RTR, compares Corps' training, traditions
 
MARINE CORPS RECRUIT DEPOT SAN DIEGO, Calif. (June 17, 2005) -- A British Royal Marine is on the depot to observe recruit training and get a taste of America's Corps.

Sgt. Christopher Morgan, a Royal Marine drill instructor, came to the depot on his own accord. His command granted the request.
 
"I wanted to come here and see the similarities and differences in our training," said Morgan. "I've seen quite a few interesting things."

Morgan, a 12-year veteran, said the aspect of training that intrigued him the most is the intensity between the drill instructors and recruits.

"When they pick up, the drill instructors go straight into it," remarked Morgan, 34. "Right off the bus, they are screaming and yelling. We do it completely differently."

By differently, Morgan means that Royal Marine drill instructors only yell at the recruits when they make mistakes vice yelling all the time like the American drill instructors.

"We aren't as intense, but our training is more physically demanding," said Morgan.
 
Training for the Royal Marines' is 32 weeks long. During that time, the drill instructors only live with the recruits for the first two weeks. After that, they go home at night and leave the recruits to themselves. In Britain, the drill instructors only teach drill. Weapons instructors and physical training instructors take care of the rest, according to Morgan.
"I think it's interesting that we are so intense, and the Royal Marines aren't, but we still achieve the same results," said Staff Sgt. Cory Gonya, Recruit Training Regiment scheduling chief, and Morgan's guide here. "I think if we added (School of Infantry) and the following school to recruit training, (American drill instructors) couldn't be as intense as we are now."

Next week, Morgan will head north to Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton, Calif., to see recruits execute field training and the Crucible. The Royal Marines have a culminating event too, but it's longer. They call it Commando Course, and it's a week long.

The Commando Course includes a 10-mile endurance course. It starts with a four-mile hike to a starting point. The hike is followed by a six-mile run in 32 pounds of gear. The course is enhanced with obstacles, and recruits have 78 minutes to complete it. It also features a nine-mile speed hike and a 30-mile march through the mountains of Dartmoor National Park with 50 pounds of gear and an eight-hour time limit.

Morgan, who has been here since June 1, has seen receiving, company pick up, Drill Instructor School, physical training and a graduation ceremony. He plans to leave at the end of the month.

"I've enjoyed having Sgt. Morgan here," said Gonya. "I've learned an incredible amount from him about the Royal Marines' traditions and history. I'd love to go to Britain and do the same thing."

Morgan also said he's enjoyed his time here.

"Everyone's been very friendly and helpful," said Morgan.

 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine    No need to be sorry.. its what allows us to have a discussion   3/30/2010 1:57:47 PM

 im sorry but i disagree with this entirely, it is undisputable that the Royal Marines must be trained to a far higher quality than their American counterparts, the Royal Marine training course is 32 weeks long for each Marine, some specialise further in other areas eg snipers etc, and intense does not mean harder, or a training course that makes for better quality soldiers, it may be more intense in other areas, such as the speed of the training course, the nature of how the course is laid out etc.
 
on a final note, the Royal Marines assault course, the infamous Tarzan course has been attempted by US marines and other foreign forces many of which struggled to complete, acknowledging that it was one of the most difficult training courses that they had ever had to undertake.
regards


Fortunately, nothing is undisputable.  As far as being of far higher quality that would be in dispute w/our USMC/RM Exchange Program & I've already given you examples of US Marine Exch. Officers who directly Commanded RM Commando Units; that shoots holes directly in your theory. 
 
My old Unit Small Craft Co. had a RM Color Sgt, Colors Tomlinson, formerly of the Commachio Group; he deployed to Iraq w/us Look It Up.  We had a Gunny serving in the RM.  42 Commando came to LeJeune & we trained head up together in '04.
 
In the '03 Iraq invasion, 3 Commando Bde was placed directly under the command of 2nd Marine Expedition Brg, 15th MEU(SOC) was directly under 3 Cdo Bde in place of 45 Commando which was deployed elsewhere, & 40 Commando was placed directly under the command of the 15th MEU(SOC)...   WHY was that??

B/c we are Interchangeable, we Interchange our Units, our Officers, NCO's, Tactics...  We use different Training Philosophies to come to the same place.  Its just the RM training vehicle is more understandable for you.
 
 
"im sorry but i disagree with this entirely, it is undisputable that the Royal Marines must be trained to a far higher quality than their American counterparts, the Royal Marine training course is 32 weeks long for each Marine, some specialise further in other areas eg snipers etc, and intense does not mean harder, or a training course that makes for better quality soldiers, it may be more intense in other areas, such as the speed of the training course, the nature of how the course is laid out etc."
 
"intense does not mean harder"-  Great point, w/that said Longer doesn't mean Harder either, let me explain.
 
 32wk Cdo Training Course/13wk USMC Boot Camp, disparaging #'s right, but great place to start... & understand.
 
1st when you talk about the RM's CTC being 32wks your talking about a course combines what the USMC calls Training Blocks I, II, & III, of 4 Training Blocks.  The RM combines the 1st 3 TBs into 1 course, the Commando Training Course...   So what does that mean??
 
Block I is a Basic Training phase.  Block II is a purely tactical Light Infantry/Small Unit Tactics phase.  Block III is mission complementary type training like Insertion/Extraction, Assault Climbing,, etc, all the things you see toward the end of the CTC.  Block IV is always Unit Training, this is specific Mission Profile Training.
 
The Royal Marine goes thru Blocks 1, 2, & 3 in 1 combined course, the CTC, then joins his unit; hence 32wks.
&
 
Quote    Reply
PREV  1 2 3 4   NEXT



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics