AlbanyRifles, While we are on the subject of mountain warfare, and given your mechanized infantry background... I was wondering what would be more taxing for a large army: Corps level exercises in mountains (make it high Rocky Mountains ~ mid-high Himalayas), or same in sand deserts (like Saudi or Thar)? By large army, I mean men of mixed background... so no specific genetic/cultural advantages as a whole. But yet a huge pool of talent to tap into. I have heard some statements that sound a bit boastful ? mainly from armour guys, like ?We train in the desert because that?s the toughest it can get.? Not like they will be taking their T-90s to Kashmir for exercises ;-) Of course I don?t hear much at all from infantry fellows, but I presume they would disagree? especially if returning from COIN in Kashmir or Assam. Seeing how you are mech inf, and can appreciate both viewpoints? whats your take on it?

1. Armor can go a lot more places than people think....swamps, as well as mountains. But the thing to remember is that the infantry has to dismount when it is apporopriate to provide protection against ATGMs.

1. Armor can go a lot more places than people think....swamps, as well as mountains. But the thing to remember is that the infantry has to dismount when it is apporopriate to provide protection against ATGMs.

1. Armor can go a lot more places than people think....swamps, as well as mountains. But the thing to remember is that the infantry has to dismount when it is apporopriate to provide protection against ATGMs.

Let me try this again.....sorry about the multiple posts 1. Armor can go a lot more places than people think....swamps, as well as mountains. But the thing to remember is that the infantry has to dismount when it is appropriate to provide protection against ATGMs. 2 historical perspectives with mech forces in mountains 1st US Armored Division in Italy in WW II worked just fine because the infantry got out of the half tracks and fought dismounted. On the other hand, the USSR had problems in Afghanistan when their infantry would not dismount. 2. In desert areas, armored forces have the distinct advantage since it is prime terrain for them. Dismounted infantry, well dug in with supporting ATGMs and artillery, can win in the desert (See UK forces in North Africa). Without the support they are speed bumps. All of that said, a desert environment is brutal on personnel and equipment. The arid air dries out seals which get eaten alive by blowing sand (there is a reason they call it sandpaper!!) The lack of water forces a logistics strain much greater than in the mountains. Mountains offer their own unique problems, snow, ice, cold, oxygen issues, but based on my experience I found the desert to be worse......and a high desert was worst of all.

>>horsesoldier the highest feature i could find in vermont was a tad under 4400 feet high. apparently our definition of mountain is very different ;) << http://www.ngb.army.mil/onguard/34/04/article.asp?aid=1418 (quote)Sufficient, apparently, to teach technical climbing skills and maintain a qualified cadre(quote) I agree. I live in the Rockies. I was raised in the Southern Appalachians. I wouldn't underestimate the Appalachians for rough going. In the Appalachians you lack the altitude acclimation factor, but you have more nice days to train on technical skills since you aren't up to your fourth point of contact in snow part of the year. There are plenty of short cliffs and gorge walls there too. The Mountain Ranger Camp remains in the Blue Ridge section of north Georgia, and they do a good job of teaching basic mountaineering skills there. If there was a real need I'm sure they could have relocated to Ft. Carson years ago. On a seperate but related note. In the mid 90's Wyoming native named Todd Skinner and some friends made a first ascent on a "tower" in the Himalayas. I can't remember where it was or what it was called, but I'll try to find that and post it. Anyway, guess where and how Skinner, who was raised in the shadow of the Wind River Mountains in Wyoming, chose to train for the expedition? Climbing boulders at Hueco Tanks near El Paso, Texas. Skinner later said "We figured if we could climb any six feet of it we could climb the whole thing."

>>Anyway, guess where and how Skinner, who was raised in the shadow of the Wind River Mountains in Wyoming, chose to train for the expedition? Climbing boulders at Hueco Tanks near El Paso, Texas. Skinner later said "We figured if we could climb any six feet of it we could climb the whole thing."<< If he grew up near the Wind River Mountains, why would he ever bother to leave? Nice country out there.

>>If he grew up near the Wind River Mountains, why would he ever bother to leave? Nice country out there.<< I don't think he really left for good, but I belive he stays at Hueco Tanks a good bit of the year. Probably because there are more nice days to practice technical skills there. The climb I mentioned was the first ascent of the East Fact of Trango Tower in Pakistan's Karakorum Himalayas.

>>The climb I mentioned was the first ascent of the East Fact of Trango Tower in Pakistan's Karakorum Himalayas.<< That should read East FACE of Trango Tower.

Well in 2001, in Afghanistan the US 101st Mountain Division said "We don't do Mountains" so the mission was carried out by the British Royal Marine Commandos, who have there own 'Mountain Warfare Cadre' which specailizes in training the Marines to be Mountain troops.