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Subject: What Army has the best camouflage pattern for their uniforms?
Schackleford    2/1/2006 10:24:28 AM
I myself think MARPAT would provide real good cover in the intended terrain (I am a lot more pessimistic about the US Army's ACU pattern). But other then that what are good camouflage patterns? And what patterns are just plain cool looking? :-)
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:What Army has the best camouflage pattern for their uniforms?   2/13/2006 7:57:30 PM
>>of course Israel as always sports the finest everything and camo is no Exception.<< ??? I always seem them sporting their solid color OD/sage colored combat fatigues. I know they are big into the camo-mesh oversuit concept, but they've never tried patrolling in forest or scrub, apparently, if they think that's a winner . . . As for the best of everything angle . . . the Israelis are extremely frugal -- second hand American CAR-15s, uparmored M113s, uparmored M60 tanks, etc., don't really call to mind "finest everything" to my mind. They have some top end kit in key systems, but I don't really see the best money can buy angle. >>I understand RangerMade has done some work with them and they probably lead in this field. there is an interesting write-up at http://www.rangermade.us for the camo enthusiasts.<< I'd put Crye Precision at the top of the pack with their multi-cam pattern, personally.
 
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BasinBictory    RE:What Army has the best camouflage pattern for their uniforms?   2/14/2006 4:00:23 AM
someone made a comment about having a lighter colored pants than the tunic which served to break up the normal pattern of shadow and light which would occur with a man wearing a uniform where pants and tunic were the same color. It was also mentioned that animals (both predators and prey) tend to have mottled, rather than solid-color coats. Curious that the military, for as much money as they spend on everything, wouldn't take cues from mother nature and adopt animal colorings for various surroundings. A light brownish-grey would seem appropriate for many forests and grassland areas.
 
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SteelGear    RE:What Army has the best camouflage pattern for their uniforms?   2/14/2006 5:26:18 AM
<> Its not a bad idea but the camouflage of most animals is normally based on their behaviour in terms of ambushing and hiding. But one very important point is how other animals are to detect the camouflaged predator or prey. Whether the camouflage is good or not is normally determined by how it takes advantage of the sensory limitations of the animal trying to find or avoid the camouflaged creature. Such limitations might be the inablity to see a particular color or to discern a certain level of detail to distinguish the hiding animal from its surroundings. So my point is what will work for animals might not work the same way for humans. With this said the only camouflage that would work well in terms of human vs human warfare is a pattern that takes advantage of a human's sensory limitations.
 
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Iano_returns    RE:What Army has the best camouflage pattern for their uniforms?   2/14/2006 6:57:23 AM
Before the digital camouflage came out the finest camouflage was good old British temperate DPM. At least in exercises to test this soldiers in DPM could get closer to an observer than those in other patterns without being spotted. You cant go wrong with forest green, dark brown, a kind of fawny colour and black. Desert DPM was also a success given that it went from the need being identified to being worn by frontline units in a low number of weeks during the first Gulf War! Well better than US 6-colour desert anyhow, but I like the way US tri-colour desert is pale and has larger wavy patterns, presumably the best in that environment, but have no idea why it includes a mint-green or that pinky-type colour. I always thought desert cam would be useful in snow environments, as the beige isnt too far off the white, and the brown patches would represent the splotches of earth showing through patchy snow. But we issue white for that anyhow so thats taken care of I guess. Perhaps we should consider issuing a similar grey camouflage oversuit for urban surroundings, but made from a fireproof material rather than the snowsuit material. Well OG is not used by any first world modern militaries anymore apart from things worn underneath your outer uniform that will always be covered by cam. And digital camouflage, between Canada and America, seems here to stay. I must say that the Canadian cam and USMC cam seems really effective. Theres a great shot of 2 Canadian snipers on a rocky hillside in Afghanistan and the result is most effective. I have no idea what the US Army is doing though! You must have 2 patterns, 1 for woodland and 1 for desert. 1 pattern for both is going to lose! Did they imagine that they will fight all future wars in cities and other built-up areas? Same with the USN and USAF, there are pics on Strategypage of their new digi-cam uniforms. Where do they camouflage you?! They should just stick with blues for working in and temperate/desert cam if they go in the field. Camouflage uniforms only go a certain way towards true cam & concealment though. You need to break up the outline of your body and equipment, and get it the right appearance as your surroundings, by attaching big handfulls of grass (or whatever else happens to be around you) to your helmet, uniform and PLCE. Harder to do in desert so perhaps sand-coloured scrim cut from sandbags attached to your kit would do better, as well as getting it all dusty and attaching tape so that green colour of your webbing is lost. Cam cream on the face is needed and hands too unless you have gloves on. The weapon is always going to stick out but trying to camouflage it can interfere with your weapons handling, not good! Ghillie suits are the ultimate but they are not practical for all troops (i.e. fine for snipers or a static longterm OP but not good in say a rifle company where you would need a lot more movement) and they are time-consuming to make. We had a sniper attached during an exercise who managed to hide on a barren hillside without a Ghillie suit at all so they are not vital either. The Israeli camo-mesh oversuit idea might be worth adopting to see if it works in desert environments where the ghillie suit is not used. Hiding yourself is a lot more about techniques and tactics too, things like avoid skylining yourself, using dead ground, covering optics with a light mesh to reduce glint, making sure your kit doesnt rattle like a skeleton having a wnak in a biscuit tin, light and noise discipline, use of IR sheeting/netting to hide from TI, use of IRR unifroms to hide from active IR illumination, radio procedure, deception plans etc etc etc, it could go on forever! As for purchasing whatever clothing off the shelf for a certain theatre of war that'd be expensive and risky, and wouldnt work either. Realtree may fool squirrels but human eyes (and the recognition patterns in the brain) differ from animals eyes and thought processes. As an example some deer hunters wear bright orange but it wouldnt be advisable to follow their example on the battlefield!
 
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Joester41    RE:What Army has the best camouflage pattern for their uniforms?   2/20/2006 6:37:14 PM
The US would if they went with Multicam...
 
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SteelGear    RE:What Army has the best camouflage pattern for their uniforms?   2/22/2006 12:09:53 AM
"The US would if they went with Multicam... " Amen to that
 
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Iano_returns    RE:What Army has the best camouflage pattern for their uniforms?   2/22/2006 6:56:53 AM
ARGH did my post fail to post or something? True cam and concealment is about A LOT MORE than what particular arrangement of dyes you happen to be sporting on your body!
 
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Davidj1    RE:What Army has the best camouflage pattern for their uniforms?   2/25/2006 5:03:03 PM
"I always seem them sporting their solid color OD/sage colored combat fatigues. I know they are big into the camo-mesh oversuit concept, but they've never tried patrolling in forest or scrub, apparently, if they think that's a winner . . ." Their camo is not for public consumption so most wont see it. Its true the olive is standard but thats not for Spec ops. "As for the best of everything angle . . . the Israelis are extremely frugal -- second hand American CAR-15s, uparmored M113s, uparmored M60 tanks, etc., don't really call to mind "finest everything" to my mind. They have some top end kit in key systems, but I don't really see the best money can buy angle." Money doesnt buy what comes to them for free. Have you ever heard of a Galil or Mercavah IV? beats the hell out of an egyption Abrahms. Or maybe the Israeli AF rings a bell, I know they certainly ring the bell of our diversity challenged gaggle when it comes to training excersizes. >>I understand RangerMade has done some work with them and they probably lead in this field. there is an interesting write-up at http://www.rangermade.us for the camo enthusiasts.<< I'd put Crye Precision at the top of the pack with their multi-cam pattern, personally. Crye is good but it wont ever be adopted mainstream.
 
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SteelGear    RE:What Army has the best camouflage pattern for their uniforms?   2/25/2006 11:38:55 PM
There is a whole Crye issue on another post
 
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Wixmix       1/7/2008 7:41:36 PM
The best pattern is one of irregularity. if you are looking for total concealment you should not wear BDU's of the same pattern. For example, in the woods you could wear British camo jacket with US woodland pants. this breaks up the pattern of the torso and the pattern of the lower half. The human eye instinctively looks for a whole shape of a human. Now we have just confused the eye. Secondly and most importantly Camo DOES NOT WORK IF YOU ARE MOVING!!! For example, a sniper ghillie suit is by far the best way to conceal the the human body. If still, it is virtually invisible, as soon as you move it is very easy to spot. to even the untrained eye.
 
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