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Subject: Greatest tactical leader/small unit leader
longrifle    12/5/2005 1:14:22 AM
Lots of threads about the greatest general and the greatest strategist. What about the greatest tactical leader? Given the nature and definition of tactics we can never know for sure who really was/is the greatest, so who is the greatest that you've personally heard of or who impressed you the most? Lots of possibilities, from Dick Winters to the squad leader who kept you alive that the rest of us will never know about. I'll toss one out for starters.

According to the numbers he led, he usually operated at a level we would think of as a squad leader, sometimes as a platoon leader, very rarely as a company commander. The concept of strategy seems to have escaped him but he was ackowledged by ally and foe to be a tactical genius. His name was Geronimo.

1) He displayed legendary fortitude, he was 57 when he surrendered the last time, and the biggest factor in his decision to surrender was the women and children, not his age.

2) He had great SERE skills and used them frequently, as well as infiltration techniques.

3) He displayed adaptability.

4) He was known to have engaged in close combat, on numerous occasions, with Mexicans, Americans, and other Indians.

5) He was known to fight and lead while wounded.

He and his warriors have since been labeled by historians as "tigers of the human race," as well as "the hardest human organism in existence." Propaganda? Sure it is, but most propaganda, legends, and myths start because they have elements of truth in them.

Definitly not a general but Geronimo gets my vote as "greatest small unit leader of all time."

Disagreements? Others?
 
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Yimmy    RE:Greatest tactical leader/small unit leader   12/5/2005 9:38:51 AM
Who was that engineer bloke who took command at Rorkes Drift?
 
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AlbanyRifles    RE:Greatest tactical leader/small unit leader   12/5/2005 1:19:10 PM
1. Lieutenant John Chard ws the RE at Rorke's Drift. 2. Best in my personal experience......LTC Pierce T. Graney. Cdr 3rd Battalion, 19th Infantry. Brilliant tactician who became the prototypical Scorpion 07 at NTC. Guy was awesome. 3. 18th Century. Major Robert Rogers.
 
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AufBom    RE:Greatest tactical leader/small unit leader   12/30/2005 10:26:13 AM
Wouldnt say "greatest" but definately one of the greatest of all times: Chatrapathi Shivaji Bhonsle, founder of the Maratha Empire. 1. Began a rebellion at the high-time of the Mughal Empire with just 50-odd men, but ended up with an independent country approximately the size and population of Spain in his life-time. 2. Almost all his victories were tactical in its nature -- the fluid politics of Deccan Plateau meant that today's brigand was tomorrow's king and vice-versa. 3. His army was composed almost entirely of light-infantry and light-cavalry. The tradition of light and swift Maratha troops was so deeply ingrained during his time that it continues to this day. 1st Battalion Maratha Light Infantry is, IIRC, the oldest "Light Infantry" battalion in the Commonwealth Armies (though technically raised by the EIC in 1776, it recruits from same area as Shivaji did). 3. Shivaji is the best-known (and probably the only) user of the Wag-Nuck (tiger-claws). The account goes as follows: Shivaji was invited to a trucial meeting with a Mughal feudatory general. But he suspected treachery and armed himself with a small palm-concealed weapon known as a Wag-Nuck... which pops out like a tiger's claw. Sure enough the general - a 6' 5" Punjabi Muslim - tried to crush him (a small man by all accounts) during the traditional embrace. The Wag-Nuck ended the affair by ripping out the general's spine. This is one confirmed incident recorded by Maratha, Mughal, English and Portuguese sources (though the Mughal sources claim Shivaji instigated the treachery by bringing in a weapon to the trucial meeting). Many more things have become legends, and are hard to state. Suffice to say "Wag-Nuck" today stands for treachery in English. 4. My personal favorite of all his exploits was the Ghorepad Incident. The Western Ghats have some pretty steep hill-forts - which in Maratha hands were rebel bases. But the Mughals used it much as Block Houses were used by the British forces during the Boer Wars. The Block Houses were used as bases for terrorising the population -- and are indeed the only known counter-insurgency weapon so far. In the same region live a particularly large type of lizards known as Ghorepads -- I believe they are the second largest after Komono Dragons. Like all lizards they can scale virtually any wall. Shivaji's men trained a massive Ghorepad to place a grappling hook it carried in its mouth. At least three strategic forts are known to have fallen due to the Ghorepad infiltration, and many more successfully raided.
 
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lrsrng    RE:Greatest tactical leader/small unit leader   12/30/2005 3:09:04 PM
The one's they made movies about. 1 SGT YORK 2 AUDIE MURPHY 3 MAJ. ROGERS 4 LEWIS AND CLARKE
 
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Heorot    RE:Greatest tactical leader/small unit leader   1/7/2006 1:23:03 PM
T E Lawrence
 
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flamingknives    RE:Greatest tactical leader/small unit leader   1/7/2006 1:51:01 PM
Possibly not the greatest, but definitely an honourable mention, ought to go to Sydney Jary, an infantry Lieutenant in the Somerset Light Infantry. A platoon leader from July '44 to the end of the war, he survived 10 months where the average leader lasted three weeks. He was no shirker either, once leading his platoon, unsupported, on a 3 mile advance against numerically superior opposition. Many years after, (1987) Jary wrote about his experiences in a much praised book, "18 Platoon"
 
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Pars    RE:Greatest tactical leader/small unit leader   1/7/2006 8:10:38 PM
Sahin Bey from Turkish War of Independence. In 1920, with a small force of volunteers he delayed a French relief force (A battalion with artillery and armored vehicle support) for 2 weeks which are going to Antep. He died while defending the last bridge to Antep after a continous withdrawal battle. He gave Antep militia force enough time to organise defense. French relief force could rescue the French force besieged in Antep but could not retake the city. That was the turning point for France. Encouraged by Antep's successful defense; the other cities in French occupation zone revolted against French rule. In a year insurrection spread also to Syria. France signed a seperate peace treaty with Turkish Rebellion government (a great blow to British prestige at the time) and pulled all French units back to Syria. There is statue of Sahin Bey at the Antep's city center. And a touching anonymous folk song written for him.
 
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Rock6       2/10/2008 2:44:28 PM
Comment to Albany Rifles. I had the same experience with Graney. He may have been the best in my experience, no doubt he was the best student orf tactics I ever saw. 
 
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Nan Da!       2/11/2008 7:22:49 PM

Here's a couple of suggestions from WWII:

1) Lt. Colonel Robert T. Frederick, C.O. 1st Special Service Force The Black Devils (Die schwarzen Teufel) of "The Devils Brigade" fame: Mount la Difensa,  Mount la Remetanea, Mount la Sambucaro, Mount Vischiataro, Mussolini Canal sector @ Anzio.
 
2) &3) German Fallschirmjäger Colonel's Schulz and Heilmann, 1st Parachute Division @ Monte Cassino.
"No other troops in the world but German paratroops could have stood up to such an ordeal and then gone on fighting with such ferocity" — Field Marshal Alexander.
 
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Nan Da!       2/11/2008 7:29:12 PM

Here's a couple of suggestions from WWII:

1) Lt. Colonel Robert T. Frederick, C.O. 1st Special Service Force The Black Devils (Die schwarzen Teufel) of "The Devils Brigade" fame: Mount la Difensa,  Mount la Remetanea, Mount la Sambucaro, Mount Vischiataro, Mussolini Canal sector @ Anzio.
 
2) &3) German Fallschirmjäger Colonel's Schulz and Heilmann, 1st Parachute Division @ Monte Cassino.
"No other troops in the world but German paratroops could have stood up to such an ordeal and then gone on fighting with such ferocity" — Field Marshal Alexander.
 
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Nan Da!       2/11/2008 7:43:35 PM

Here's a couple of suggestions from WWII:

1) Lt. Colonel Robert T. Frederick, C.O. 1st Special Service Force The Black Devils (Die schwarzen Teufel) of "The Devils Brigade" fame: Mount la Difensa,  Mount la Remetanea, Mount la Sambucaro, Mount Vischiataro, Mussolini Canal sector @ Anzio.
 
2) &3) German Fallschirmjäger Colonel's Schulz and Heilmann, 1st Parachute Division @ Monte Cassino.
"No other troops in the world but German paratroops could have stood up to such an ordeal and then gone on fighting with such ferocity" — Field Marshal Alexander.
 
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Ispose    Chesty   2/12/2008 8:26:00 AM
As an ex Army guy this is hard to say...But Chesty Puller USMC stands up there
 
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Nasty German Idiot       2/20/2008 2:33:05 PM
Hehe, what about Fidel Castro :) ?   His first attack on Havanna was a failure, but he managed to fight on with less than 10 rifles and stayed in power till just now, right in the backdoor of the US. 

One very good German WW2 small unit Commander:   (taken from waffenhq.de  translated by: NGI :) )


Heinz-Georg Lemm
* 01.06.1919 in Schwerin/Mecklenburg
V 17.11.1994 in Ruppichteroth

Medals:
- Infantry combat batch - silver
- Hand to hand combat medal - silver
- Special medal for Tank destruction by a single soldier --> in german: "Sonderabzeichen für Panzervernichtung durch Einzelkämpfer"
- Demjansk - shield
- German cross in gold
- injury medal in silver ( German equivalent of the purple heart ( in his case, 5 purple hearts )
- Knights cross + oaks + swords

Joined the German Army in 1935 as Staff Seargeant, attended the Officer course on the German War school in Munich, and served as frontline second lieutenant on the Warsaw front. He ended the Poland campaign with the Iron Cross second Class. His 7 men squad met a Polish Cavallery battallion on the first days of the War, but managed to retreat with all his men uninjured.  During the France Campaign, he went through battles in Nantes, Luxembourg, at the Somme, and Vendee. Although wounded by a bajonett, he returned after 1 week in hospital and rejoined his unit, where he was awarded the Iron Cross first class for extraordinary courage. When the Russia Campaign began, he lead a regiment of Infantry as First lieutenant.  In September, he was cut off from the Rest of the Division and was able to hold his ground on enemy territory for 2 days under heavy attacks before escaping together with his regiment and 50 taken prisoners.  In 1942, he was part of the Troops surrounded at Demjansk, the first time of WW2 where a major force was surrounded (96.000 Soldiers, but at this time the Luftwaffe could supply them)  During the whole Winter, the surrounded force was attacked from all sides at temperatures below 40 ° celsius, and the Soviets even dropped Paratroopers on the German Divisions to break the encircled troops from inside - a bloody suicide command.  After a German support Army was able to break the encirclement after 81 days, Lemm was among those who were able to retreat.  He was than send to the Northern part of the front, where at Stranya Luka, his now mechanized Infantry regiment was able to destroy 43 Soviet tanks on 3 days.  In 1943, he got inside the Tscherkassy encirclement and was among those troops defending Mogilev. Later when the German Army was pushed back he fought in the huge tank battles around Minsk, now promoted to a Major and commanding a batallion. His battallion was than taked back from the Front for a month, before he was send into the battles at the Western Front, together with the 6th tank army of General Dietrich, at the Ardennes offensive.  When he encountered a German regiment of prison-Wehrmacht soldiers  who had been given the chance to fight on, he destroyed all evidence against them and took them over in his batallion, saving dozends of them from Wehrmacht court persecution.  In 1945 we was captured by American troops at the defence of the Düsseldorf area.  After he was alreased after 10 month as POW, he was captured again by Russian Soldiers and put into Prison until 1950, when he returned to Germany.

He joined the Bundeswehr again in 1957 and served until 1979, leaving service as General Leutnant and Chief of the German Troop Office, and was awarded the American Legion of Merit and the First rank German Federal Republik service Cross during his second Bundeswehr carreer.
















 
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Herald12345    Give the bastard his due.   2/20/2008 2:41:41 PM
Fidel sure fits.

So in the early years does Uncle Ho when the French and the Japanese had him dead to rights.

Herald
 
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Yimmy       2/20/2008 5:21:21 PM
Anyone know where I might find a copy of the book "18 Platoon" in the UK?  Without paying some stupid amount for a used copy on Amazon.
 
 
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