The Strategypage is a comprehensive summary of military news and affairs.
 News As History - December 4, 2008

Dunnigan's and Bay's Latest

Advertisement



New Strategy - Wargames at Discount Prices
1.Squad Battles: Winter War
2.Silent War
3.Manoeuvre
4.Gallic Wars
5.Fast Action Battle: The Bulge

100+ Computer and Board games all with free shipping.
 
 
 

Online Giving

Utah SEO Firm

Xango

Smiley Gifts for Babies

Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use
Leadership Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Is It Leadership That Makes The Difference
BadNews    2/6/2007 10:47:56 AM
For over a year I have monitored this site, I did not start posting until recently. It seems that no matter what the thread, three constants appear, Blind Nationalism, Blind Pride In One's Favorite Branch Of Service, And Wild Theories ABout Why some have a better way. So why not pose this question.

Is It Leadership That Makes The Difference?

Please no nationalistic BS, I am really curious to here ow some of the more active posters to forum respond. Give me concrete examples of battlefield leadership and let's analyze from there.

 
Quote    Reply
 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Sort in Reverse Order Posted

longrifle       2/13/2007 1:13:59 AM
Two examples from the book Band of Brothers when leadership made all the difference:

E-2/506 was attacking Carentan on June 12, 1944.  When the attack kicked off German machine gun fire split the lead platoon.  Some soldiers were going ahead with the attack and some were taking cover in a ditches on both sides of the road leading into Carentan.  2LT Richard Winters ran back and forth across the road under fire physically booting butts and got the men up out of the ditches and into the attack again.  They later proved to be courageous and well trained soldiers but they needed leadership under fire at a critical time.  2LT Richard Winters provided it.

E-2/506 was attacking Foy on January 9, 1945.  The attack stopped at the edge of Foy and the company commander broke down under fire and stress.  Watching from a treeline about 200 yards away CPT Richard Winters, who was now the battalion XO started to run toward the stalled attack.  Realizing that he couldn't commit himself to commanding a company when he had responsibilities at battalion level, CPT Winters changed his mind and told 1LT Ronald Speirs to take command of the company and get the attack moving.  1LT Speirs crossed 200 yards of open field under fire, relieved the frozen commander, took command of the company and led the attack into Foy by personal example.  The men had proven to be courageous and well trained soldiers in the past and they went on to prove it again, but they needed leadership under fire at a critical time.  1LT Ronald Speirs provided it.

 
Quote    Reply

longrifle       2/13/2007 3:18:42 AM
A correction to my last post.  Richard Winters was a 1LT at the time of the attack on Carentan.

As some know and others have probably guessed, I love Airborne history. 

I'm sure some of you Marine Corps historians can provide similar examples from the central Pacific about actions on beachheads, etc.

 
Quote    Reply

SGMCEB    leaders   2/14/2007 10:33:02 PM
Sound leadership is the difference between a rabble and the military or a police dept or even a corporation. 
 
Examples (negative and positive);
 
Abu Girab---the real scandal from this prison was not the treatment of the detainees there.  This is actually the symptom of a complete breakdown of leadership and subsequently, discipline.  Had the CG, Bde Cdr, Bn Cdr, Co Cdr, and associated Sr NCOs been checking, inspecting and enforcing, much of what happened would have been unthinkable to the troops that did it.  Sound leaders are the kinetic force that animates doctrine, law and enforces the "correct" actions.
 
the Sadaam Fedayeen in 2003.  This group was charged with conducting limited operations in US and UK rear areas.  In spite of the clear outcome of the ground offensive, this motivated and well led corps of volunteers sacrificed themselves in an egregious display of loyalty.  While one could argue that this loyalty was to the point of fanatical, it was fostered and sustained by good leadership that seems to have uniformly understand what was expected of them and prepared the force for that.
 
Rourke's Drift---a well led (by personal example) Company of Infantry held a decidedly disadvantaged position and maintained both cohesion and tactical effectiveness throughout a grueling battle.  As an example of this, the less than 100 troops on the walls fired over 20000 rounds and may have killed as many as 1200 of the Zulus (also courageous and well disciplined).  If true, this indicates that these men killed up to 28% of the attacking force over a 16 hour period.  Such an outcome is the direct result of the system of leadership in that Army which demanded loyalty by the leaders to the units and troops.
 
On the other side of that is the action at My Lai.  The Soldiers at My Lai were no different in training, culture, values or missions than the other Soldiers in the RVN at that time.  So what was the true difference for them?  The leaders failed in their duty to lead their units.
 
JMO anyway!
 
Quote    Reply

BadNews       2/15/2007 1:15:53 AM
Abu Girab---the real scandal from this prison was not the treatment of the detainees there.  This is actually the symptom of a complete breakdown of leadership and subsequently, discipline.  Had the CG, Bde Cdr, Bn Cdr, Co Cdr, and associated Sr NCOs been checking, inspecting and enforcing, much of what happened would have been unthinkable to the troops that did it.  Sound leaders are the kinetic force that animates doctrine, law and enforces the "correct" actions.
 
Exactly, Especially the SR NCO's Realizing that the unit in question here was a reserve unit, LEADERSHIP by the the Sr NCO's especially could have prevented this from ever happening.

 
Quote    Reply

SGMCEB    Senior NCOs   2/16/2007 5:33:13 PM
NCOs run the gamut from outstanding to moronic and the Reserve Component is no different.  The fact that no Officer has faced any real consequences to this point probably underscores the environment those NCOs were faced with daily.
 
Good Sr NCO leadership tells the soft upper leadership to take a flying leap and then moves and applies their boot to some ass to ensure that the right things are done.  All soldiers follow a leader.  When leadership does not step up, or is absent, troops will find other forms of leadership.
 
When our troops do not follow our stated values it is because an NCO accepted it as their standard!
 
Quote    Reply

xylene       2/23/2007 12:27:41 PM
As a former merchant marine officer, one of my favorite examples of leadership was when Capt. Bligh and loyals were cast adrift after the mutiny on the HMS Bounty.  With the situation dire and starvation a reality the prospect of cannibalism was murmured. Capt Blight rejected it soundly saying "We are civilized men, and if we must, we will die as civilized men". He went on to achieve one of the greatest navigational feats of all time by sailing over 1,000 miles to Timor using only celestial navigation. As divisive a man Bligh was, he showed great leadership which helped his men survive what would have been certain death.
 
Quote    Reply

RockyMTNClimber    Shackleton- defined leadership   2/23/2007 2:47:50 PM
1914 - 1916 Endurance Expedition
Shackleton's most famous expedition was planned to be an attempt to cross Antarctica from the Weddell Sea south of the Atlantic, to the Ross Sea south of the Pacific, by way of the Pole. It set out from London on August 1, 1914, and reached the Weddell Sea on January 10, 1915, where the pack ice closed in on the Endurance. The ship was broken by the ice on October 27, 1915. The 28 crew members managed to flee to Elephant Island, bringing three small boats with them. All of them survived after Shackleton and five other men managed to reach the southern coast of South Georgia in one of the small boats, from where Shackleton organized a rescue operation to bring home the remaining men.
 
If this is not the greates leadership effort it has to be in the top 5! This guy's 28 man crew becomes stranded in the South Polar region. He leads a small team to a deserted island and successfully summons rescue for every one of his crew!
 
Shackleton is what leadership is all about.
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
Quote    Reply

StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2008StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy