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Subject: Which is better the KGB or CIA
df-10    8/12/2003 11:38:49 PM
What do u guys think?
 
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WinsettZ    RE:Which is better the KGB or CIA   8/13/2003 7:38:26 PM
I think the KGB became the FSB. Since a defector brought the KGB archives to the US, and the CIA is under fire for failing to prevent 9/11, I will say both suck, and say MI6 is probably better...or Mossad and Shin-Bet. But I think the Shah's old Savak secret police were better at torture then either.
 
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surprisemove    RE:Which is better the KGB or CIA   3/16/2004 6:33:02 AM
GRU
 
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tank    RE:Which is better the KGB or CIA   3/16/2004 5:24:53 PM
what is gr.
 
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sooner    RE:Which is better the KGB or CIA   4/3/2004 12:28:10 PM
"I would say that they both such." What a reply from an idiot. What about the attacks that you haven't heard about BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAPPEN? I apologize because a statement like yours doesn't even deserve a reply. Your a slapnuts.
 
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jacques    RE:Which is better the KGB or CIA   4/25/2004 7:25:44 PM
Both of them are terrible. They are worthless bunch of people who only burden their countries. The task of information collection is better handle by journalists and academic professionals.
 
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Worcester    RE:One is defunct and the other is hopeless   4/26/2004 4:58:35 PM
Well the KGB had to be split - who knows if the FRS is any good? As for CIA they have proven if it were needed that they may be occasionally good at covert action but they are completely useless at their primary mission of gathering intelligence. If 9/11 were the first or second or third time it might be excusable. But the agency set up as a result of he lessons of WW2 to prevent another Pearl Harbor didn't spot the 1956 Hungarian suppression, the 1962 Cuban missiles until they were there (!), the 1967 invasion of Israel, the 1968 invasion of Czechsolovakia, the 1973 invasion of Israel (the NSA had the data), the 1980 invasion of Afghanistan, the 1985 Perestroika (Russia is a threat!), the 1990 fall of the Berlin Wall (Russia is a threat!), the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, the Cole incident, the 2001 bombibng of the World Trade Center. For the sake of brevity I've left out a few mistakes they've made. At every stage they've been blind-sided or have hung on to the old enemy through pure bureacratic inertia or the desire to please their paymasters on the Hill. They say what the Hill want to hear and knock over a few Latin countries; aisde from that, what is their record? Oh yeah, of course, it's so secret we can't be told. You can screw up publicly for decades and claim secrecy for your success while feigning injured pride. No other profession can get away with this crap - nice (government) work if you can get it! Isn't it about time we gutted this thing to the core, and refocused on the core function - gathering intelligence! Some objective original thought would help too. As a taxpayer I find this a staggering F&#K up!
 
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Worcester    RE:One is defunct and the other is hopeless   4/26/2004 5:03:59 PM
What am I saying? Starved of cash in a poor government with collapsing borders and a threat at each side. OF COURSE the Russians are better! Certainly got to be more cost-effective. That's how you make a lean, mean intelligence machine. Not by shuffling the same old bureaucratic cards at Langley until they can collect their pensions. Anyone heard of a senior staffer being fired at Langley? Then how efficient is it? About time don't you think. A little kick up the ass!
 
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SGTObvious    You must be kidding, Jaques.   4/27/2004 1:04:18 PM
Journalists are pathetic. They have no understanding of what they are looking at. Michael Crichton (well known author) had an interesting and accurate comment on journalists: He notes that we read newspapers, and we read an article on a subject about which we have personal knowledge and experience, we are amused and sometimes disgusted or enraged at how innacurate the story is. Then, we turn the page, read another story where we don't have personal knowledge or experience, and we instantly forget what we thought a moment ago, and now we think the journalists are competently telling the truth.
 
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jacques    RE:You must be kidding, Jaques.   4/30/2004 6:08:02 AM
Journalists are pathetic. They have no understanding of what they are looking at. Michael Crichton (well known author) had an interesting and accurate comment on journalists: He notes that we read newspapers, and we read an article on a subject about which we have personal knowledge and experience, we are amused and sometimes disgusted or enraged at how innacurate the story is. Then, we turn the page, read another story where we don't have personal knowledge or experience, and we instantly forget what we thought a moment ago, and now we think the journalists are competently telling the truth. Well, okay you're right. I hate to agree with you. Really I am but you're right. I tend to beleive them when I read about anything other than aviation subjects. But I am sure sometimes intelligent agents don't know that they're looking at or writing about too. I read a book about the GRU probably 10 years ago. Them and the KGB successfully stole an american made neutron bomb and they brought it to moscow to show all the VIP people in the kremlin. Imagine had that thing blow up; what would happen to the soviet union ? It would be worst than a decapitating attack. To make the story short; the head of the GRU was removed from his post for that thoughtless incident and. So intelligent agents are just as unimformed as journalist don't you agree with me ? While journalist lack specific knowledge of specialise subject; intelligent agents lack knowledge on subjects they're suppose to be specialised on.
 
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Bluewings    both are highly inefficient   1/23/2005 7:59:07 PM
CIA or KGB ? KGB . The CIA is a multimillion dollars machine full of bureaucrats with very little decent contacts on the ground . Highly overrated . NSA is better . The ex KGB was tough and was inspiring fear which is a much better approach to Intelligence business . Nevertheless KGB is now dead . Cheers .
 
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stratego    RE:Which is better the KGB or CIA   2/4/2005 11:28:10 PM
Worcester hit the nail on the head, but the foreign side of the forme KGB is the FSB, I believe (could be wrong.) In effect, though, the former KGB is more or less still there---as an oligarchy running the Russian government itself! Most of the high level guys (including Putin, who has effectively become a dictator) are former KGB. What I wonder is, have they perhaps held onto some of their "old hats" while donning new ones. Then there would be, in effect 3 agencies: the KGB, the FSB, and the SVB (the last for inside Russia.)
 
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Adamantine    KGB more well staffed and have better humint   2/21/2005 11:57:12 AM
I am not sure about the current situation. But the general impression I have during the cold war is that KGB and GRU is MUCH bigger in terms of man power than CIA. They have far more spies than CIA and many of these spies infiltrate important hierarchies within NATO. Remember Kim Philby? That mind blowing eye blinding lady that slept with an ex British PM or Defense minister and manage to milk some confidential stuff from him while he is sulking her bosoms for milk ... .. ... KGB certainly instill more fear and respect than CIA. In contrast the impression that people have on CIA is that it is staffed with lots of high tech gadgets to nullified its weakness in Humint. CIA definitely has far better ELINT and SIGINT than KGB due to American superiority in electronics. However, pound for pound , I believe British M16 and Israelis Mossad are the best. Meaning given their limited budget and manpower, they manage to get the most bang per buck. As for West German intelligence, I have this vague impression that it is being heavily infiltrated by the very efficient and mammoth East Germany counterpart. Any comments?
 
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displacedjim    RE:KGB more well staffed and have better humint   2/21/2005 1:18:00 PM
My comment is that neither CIA nor the KGB does/did SIGINT. That is/was the job of NSA and the GRU. Displacedjim P.S. NSA rocks.
 
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stratego    RE:Which is better the KGB or CIA   12/9/2005 12:15:54 AM
surprisemove, agree, GRU. Have you read Suvorov?
 
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stratego    RE:Worcester, I heard Goss is shaking CIA up   12/9/2005 12:21:31 AM
I read the top CIA people were unhappy and many had resigned. I am hoping he is doing some housecleaning. Golitsyn and Angleton found deep Soviet penetration into the Soviet section of the CIA in the 1960s. They were right, but they were discredited, so the problem was never solved and has no doubt only gotten worse.
 
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