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Subject: Chinese spys steal Navy DD(X) Destroyer technology
HYPOCENTER    9/18/2006 11:44:36 AM
The Chinese are now able to build thier own DD(X) Destroyer.... on top of that, they can sell those plans to other countries for profit.
SEE FULL ARTICLE HERE: link

We're being over-run with spys -- the question is, are we winning the intelligence war or losing it?

I think we're losing.
 
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displacedjim       9/18/2006 1:24:56 PM
Yeah, the Chinese will build their own DD(X)--in about 2020 if they're lucky.  Before anyone could make the case that we're winning or losing the "intelligence war," I think you need to define your terms first.  For example, I'm sure it's quite possible that they collect and use more human and open source intelligence about us than we do about them.  However, there's no possible way the Chinese collect and use even a very small fraction of the amount of communications, electronic, and imagery intelligence about America that we collect and use about them.
 
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HYPOCENTER       9/18/2006 2:49:18 PM

Yeah, the Chinese will build their own DD(X)--in about 2020 if they're lucky.  Before anyone could make the case that we're winning or losing the "intelligence war," I think you need to define your terms first.  For example, I'm sure it's quite possible that they collect and use more human and open source intelligence about us than we do about them.  However, there's no possible way the Chinese collect and use even a very small fraction of the amount of communications, electronic, and imagery intelligence about America that we collect and use about them.


Good points, but the visual surveillance and and eavesdropping type-surveillance we use now are so well known they can be countered, or at the very least measures can be taken to avoid them which diminish their effectiveness. Case in point, this Chinese spy ring went undetected since 1983 -- if that's any indication then I'm convinced that there are 'Aldrich Ames' level spys within the U.S., literally giving our enemies the keys to the kingdom.

As an aside, after analyzing the cold war, I'm convinced the CIA is an inferior intelligence agency to the USSR's 1960's KGB. The KGB were so much more effective in their HUMINT. I'm convinced the reason we won the cold war has less to do with the CIA and more to do with the fact that the USA bankrupted the USSR... communism doesn't have staying power, democracys do. But looking back, overall, I think the KGB was a far more effective intelligence agency. We never had an equivalent to Aldrich Ames in the KGB -- at least if we did, the public doesn't know about it, which means the CIA is more effective. At any rate, I believe the CIA is inferior to our enemies... any nation who runs an intelligence agency which doesn't function with all the bureauracy (such as KGB) are far more effective.

The article also stated that from the NAVAL tech information they were given, the Chinese can now track LA class submarines.
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       9/18/2006 3:06:38 PM
Since 1983...that would include Ray-gun and George I, not just Clinton.  Of course, only demcrats are to blame, not pro-corporate republicans or politicians in general who let US companies give the CCP and PLA everything they wanted for "future potential business access".
 
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displacedjim       9/18/2006 5:25:11 PM
Well, you certainly won't find me defending CIA.  I have no use for them outside of collecting HUMINT and making pol/mil geopolitical assessments.  Thankfully, they are a minor player in military intelligence overall, and we have plenty of other intelligence agencies to get the job done.
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       9/18/2006 9:45:56 PM
Maybe military intel ought to be gaurding military technology instead of the keystone cops.
 
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VelocityVector    Chinese spys steal Navy DD(X) Destroyer technology   9/18/2006 10:32:44 PM


A few personal observations regarding inherent systemic problems here:  One, the US hasn’t produced enough SAEs to meet the demands of its defense industry since the end of the Cold War.  Two, useful things can’t be accomplished unless we share information among the players and their minions who perform the practical work.  Three, SAE trend towards the liberal bent (especially those who did not achieve Bent).  Four, the industry is operated as a for-profit business, in the absence of new threats what else could generate such profitable markets, space aliens?  Five, information is liquid.  Six, high officials routinely leak critical information for personal gain (see, e.g., dictionary definitions for  “corruption” and “political war chest”).  Seven, the US voting public doesn’t perceive it can reform the above.  That last observation distyurbs me the most.


v^2

SAE = = "scientists and engineers"


 
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