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Subject: The NATO Plot Against Russia
SYSOP    3/24/2015 5:56:29 AM
 
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DavidE    Another Vietnam   3/24/2015 1:05:06 PM
If enough weapons can be sent to Ukraine, maybe we can take the fight out of Putin through a slow grinding insurgency.  It has worked before...
 
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trenchsol       3/24/2015 1:55:28 PM
Bondarchuk's movie '9th Company' revealed that only Soviet conscripts who volunteered were sent to Afghanistan, back in 1980's. I don't know if it is true or not. What kind of conscripts are being sent to Ukraine, volunteers or all of them ?
 
 
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tobiathan    Great point!   3/24/2015 5:47:35 PM
I saw that movie in Eng. subtitles and it revealed a LOT about the Soviet experience in Afghan in the '80s.
 
It makes sense that RUS would only use volunteers or risk a disgruntled conscript falling into Western media hands...
 
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Cannoneer No. 4    Chekist and Chechen   3/24/2015 9:37:08 PM
Putinist Hybrid Warfare intentionally confuses issues of legitimacy, legality, and non-state actors who are actually KGB-controlled terrorists backed up by Russian Spetnaz, armor, artillery and paratroopers. Ukrainian and anti-Putin Russian sources can be found on twitter recounting Buryat tankists, Kirghiz mercenaries, Chechen thugs and the war criminals who raped Georgia in 2008 all converging to rape, plunder, kill and despoil Ukraine. The Swedish island of Gotland in the Baltic Sea may very well be seized by Putinist desantniki before summer which will be the end for Estonia, Latvia Lithuania and Poland. What is NATO really capable of doing about that?
 
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trenchsol       3/24/2015 9:50:07 PM
Canoneer, Sweden is not NATO, therefore NATO can't do much about it without invading Swedish territory. But, Sweden can do a lot. They could deploy troops there, for example.
 
 
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Mikko       3/25/2015 4:36:03 AM
It will be interesting to read sometime in 2040's that what the western intelligence services did today to affect the media environment in Russia. They must have some subtle levers to pull to build on the potential of anti-Putinist sentiment in Russia. We just don't know anything of it today, which is good.
 
 
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trenchsol       3/25/2015 12:47:47 PM
I'd like to make a few comments on general attitudes expressed in the media.
 
You can't defend yourself without actually doing it. It means you must fight back. NATO is mutual defense organization. If countries A, B, C are NATO members, and C is attacked, it doesn't mean that A i B will fight back while C waits until it is over and says 'Thanks guys, if there is something else, we will let you know".
 
Baltic states are nearly impossible to defend because of their geographic location. Sweden has capable military, at least on paper, it should be able to defend its territory. There is that attitude "Russians are coming". So what, fight them back. Someone might help you if you show some resolve.
 
I happen to live in the country (Croatia) which survived against great odds in early 90's. With attitudes  expressed in the media, many of us would have perished in concentration camps and our country wouldn't have existed. When war started we had no military and the country was not recognized internationally.
 
Take Israel as an example. With such attitudes Israeli citizens would have developed gills by now, because they would have been forced to live in the sea. That is where Arab armies would have pushed them back in 1948, 1967 and 1973.
 
I know that there are countries in Europe which haven't seen war since 1945, some not even then. But, times are changing and one has to adapt.
 
 
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Yimmy       3/25/2015 2:36:36 PM
All of the EU (other than Malta and Cyprus) have deployed "troops" to Afghanistan.
 
The vast majority of Europe has seen war since 1945.  The problem is, most of the general public don't seem to realise it!  We don't seem to fight to win anymore...
 
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joe6pack    Yimmy   3/25/2015 4:24:25 PM
>The problem is, most of the general public don't seem to realise it!  We don't seem to fight to win anymore...
 
Well said and excellent points! ...and isn't it sad...(on both counts)
 
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Nate Dog    Mikko   3/25/2015 6:19:31 PM
We should all live so long. 
Especially with your paymasters bellicose attitude and vast nuclear arsenals.
In context, the tiny bit being said against Putin in Russian media (i assume you mean internet, anyone broadcasting tv or radio that had anything unsanctioned to say against Putin was killed long ago) is maybe 1/2 of a % compared to what most western media say about its own leaders. All the time. Its called checks and balances. The fact that dear leader Putin can murder, rape, and STEAL half of Russias wealth for himself and no one says a thing is indicative of how much your media doesn't say.
Maybe if you helped get rid of that Oligarch rather than accepting a few roubles a month to defend him, Russia would be a better place.
 
 
 
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