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Subject: Russian T90 vs. US M1A2 Abrams
achtpanz    6/14/2004 3:59:14 AM
Russian T90 vs American M1A2 Abrams - Which is better? If these tanks fought in battle, which would suffer more casualties, which one is superior? What are their advantages? Any information would be helpful.
 
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doggtag    RE:Russian T90 vs. US M1A2 Abrams   7/2/2004 8:42:08 PM
Are we going for direct comparison (firepower, protection, mobility) in this argument? I think the M1A2's Chobham/DU armor gives it a better edge, and the T90's protection only gets on-par with the additional armors (ERA and applique). There are few MBT vs MBT combat examples of the capability of Russian KE rounds against western tanks (this shapes my decision favoring western armor protection ability), as there are western KE rounds performance against Russian armor (Abrams and Challenger vs T-72 in Gulf War). Personally, I seriously doubt even an M1A2, Challenger 2, or T-90 would stand a chance against against the Leo2A6's 120mm L/55 firing latest German KE rounds. The US has been slower in the field of tube-launched guided weapons (like TERM), especially compared to Russian 125 mm developments (current Russian research has brought the technology down to prototype 85mm rounds) Aside from the Israeli LAHAT, it seems the US is finally developing a (promising) capable 120mm system, currently named MRM-KE http://www.spacedaily.com/news/missiles-04l.html with a proposed range of 7 miles or more (ouch, Bastion!) .
 
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T800m101    RE:Russian T90 vs. US M1A2 Abrams   8/8/2004 3:57:14 PM
The T-90 will get rocked by the Abrams. The Abrams armor is much stronger than the T-90's.
 
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PuckaMan    RE:Russian T90 vs. US M1A2 Abrams   8/8/2004 10:09:32 PM
Oh god, not again.......... Pucka
 
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boris the romanian    RE:Russian T90 vs. US M1A2 Abrams   8/9/2004 2:07:52 AM
I'll go the T-90. After all, "the Abrams has a 120mm gun, 5mm shorter than the T-90" :)
 
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PuckaMan    T90......   8/9/2004 3:25:16 AM
And the T90 is smaller and therefore harder to hit...... ;-) Pucka
 
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mike_golf    RE:T90......   8/9/2004 9:45:09 AM
Don't forget the autoloader!
 
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PuckaMan    RE:T90......   8/10/2004 7:16:01 AM
.....or the tube launched ATGM capability! Pucka
 
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boris the romanian    RE:T90......   8/10/2004 11:35:59 PM
Actually, Pucka, I think the tube launched ATGM has a lot of potential for the T-series vehicles. I know there are reliability issues but it gives the Russian tanks a good chance of a first round hit at ranges of 3000m+, which is much better than would be acheived with the standard 2A46M1/2 gun. It is very unlikely to be able to penetrate an Abrams but bunkers or Bradelys are still vulnerable. It also gives the T-90 a reasonable chance against helos. The Abrams has no need for such a weapon but the missile helps remedy the 2A46's shortcomings at long range to some degree.
 
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PuckaMan    RE:T90......   8/11/2004 1:17:44 AM
Yeah but I still rater fire a couple of HEATs or MPATs at the unfortunate target than spen the time lining up for a missle. As for helos, I would gues that any Russian tank formation would have Shilka/Tunguska support, and the missles take up too much room. To me, a Gun launched ATGM seems to be a large capability waste - a big investment in space, time, and resources for considerable low return. Western Guns are currently superior. Pucka
 
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boris the romanian    RE:T90......   8/11/2004 1:31:18 AM
"Western Guns are currently superior" No arguments there but I still think tube launched ATGMs would help remedy the 2A46M1/2's inaccuracy at long range. As for the waste of ammunition space, the T-90 has a larger magazine than Western MBTs (43 rounds, IIRC). I think three ATGMs would be well worth the space.
 
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