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Subject: Pakistan Air Force Crumbling Away
SYSOP    12/27/2012 5:00:08 AM
 
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bikebrains    Say What ?   12/27/2012 12:28:04 PM
"Since 2000, Pakistan has received 46 F-16s and 100 Chinese made JF-17s (similar to the F-16)."   So, during the time Pakistan was hiding bin Laden in Abbottabad, U. S. made fighter aircraft were being sent to Pakistan.   Which nation provided the aircraft? If the U. S. provided the aircraft, does anyone see anything wrong with this picture?   Would the continuing supply of military aircraft by the U. S. be a part of the ruse to convince Pakistan that we did not have a clue as to the location of bin Laden?     Were the aircraft provided before or after the U. S. discovered the location of bin Laden?  
"In short, the Pakistani Air Force is facing a disaster."  I cannot think of a country that is more deserving.   Boycott all goods made in Pakistan.
 
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vahitkanig       12/27/2012 2:53:38 PM
Altough  jets  are complex  electronic based  device but  security is  always  mechanical.
Additionally  mechanical  sensor must  be add  for  back up.
 
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WarNerd       12/27/2012 3:37:36 PM
Everyone has 20/20 hindsight.
 
If we knew then what we know now, we would have just let the Russians (try to) keep Afghanistan.
 
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cwDeici       12/28/2012 2:20:02 AM


Everyone has 20/20 hindsight.

 

If we knew then what we know now, we would have just let the Russians (try to) keep Afghanistan.


Well, there's hindsight and there's bad decision-making.
India's going with Rafales now over the Migs... that's progress.
 
 
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cwDeici       12/28/2012 2:20:37 AM







Everyone has 20/20 hindsight.



 



If we knew then what we know now, we would have just let the Russians (try to) keep Afghanistan.






Well, there's hindsight and there's bad decision-making.

India's going with Rafales now over the Migs... that's progress.
 



painful and slow progress : )
 
But yeah, good to see Pakistan growing weaker and India stronger.
 
 
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Skylark    The higher strategy of optics   12/29/2012 11:32:05 PM
The problem of the Pakistani air force is (IMO) either a lack of interest in a traditional military (Planes, tanks, ships) or a lack of confidence that a traditional miltary will make a difference in war.  Pakistan has, in the recent past, relied heavily on terrorism by proxy behind enemy lines, using suicide shock troops to strike their hated enemy, India.  It isn't terribly effective, but it does create a 'splash' that is way out of proportion to its strategic, and is probably very economical as well.  Conventional armies, on the other hand, require a lot of upkeep, even in peace-time,  and it is probable that the Generals have already figured out that taking on the much more prosperous and numerically superior India is a recipe for disaster.  My guess is the strategy in Pakistan is based more on optics than conquest.  News of jihadis running wild killing civilians in India (As in Mumbai) plays well in the muslim street and keeps the masses focused on things that do not involve a corrupt government and a failing economy.  With that sort of strategy, who needs an air force?
 
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DavidE       1/2/2013 7:56:44 PM
I am sure you are right, the idea of jihadists running wild in India killing civilians is very popular in Pakistan.  The real question in my mind is "Why?"  The fact that it is popular is a big reason why the Pak military does it.  But in almost every part of the world, this is considered completely uncivilized.  We don't wish terrorist deaths on Russians, even during the Cold War, and I have never heard anyone celebrating the Beslan attacks, no matter how much tension there was between us.  So why do Pakistanis and Arabs celebrate civilian deaths in India (and the US, Israel, Europe?). 
 
 My guess is that the reason is that Muslim societies are very tribal, much more tribal than we are, and easily fall into patterns of thought of "my tribe vs. their tribe", and zero sum games between them.  They really see only negative value in tribes not closely related to them. Al Qaeda seems to excel at insinuating itself into such societies.  I haven't heard so much about tribes outside of the Arab world, Africa, and South Asia, and every time I hear about new inroads from Al Qaeda, it seems to be that they have made arrangements with some local potentate. 
 
Just my own private theory.  
 
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