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Subject: What Really Scares The Chinese
SYSOP    2/28/2013 5:54:23 AM
 
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SAE       2/28/2013 8:51:53 AM
And what does this have to do with China? The article does not make the connection.
 
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Reactive       2/28/2013 10:53:57 AM
Ah yes, Scott the strategic genius was responsible - you're their ace in the hole.
 
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vahitkanig       2/28/2013 11:23:08 AM
&&04;nstead  to mess  with  the  proxy war  at  overseas , US should  pay  more  attention   neighbour on the continent.
Plus  China  huge  country  has  no problem  with  man  force  espaecialy  with  the  mentality .
Tactical war  with  China will cost  huge  humanitarian  price for  Chinese whic  Beijin doesnot care.
Better  to  support democratic  opponents in China.
Help   Taiwan  and  Phillipines be  ally each  other  againts  China.
 
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TonoFonseca    ...   2/28/2013 1:17:07 PM
No, it doesn't really.  But if we look at Chinese tradition, they don't really care much about how many of their grunts die.  Contrast this with our view of (almost) every life being of value.  China looks at their huge population and they are overconfident about it.  They would be far more likely to put their troops in suicidal situations than we would. 
 
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Toryu88    Are we forgetting history...again?   2/28/2013 2:40:29 PM
The article assumes the next toe to toe with the US will be in N. Korea.  So be it.  Lets look at the technology we used the first time and what we have now.  In 1950 my dad was flying in A-26s dropping flash bombs for night recon photography.  Consider the lag time to take the pics, target a mission and what the expected results might be.  A truck can cover a lot of ground even if it is at night at a speed of 15-20 mph.  Today our tech can lay bare the whole of N. Korea bare night or day.  Smart weapons would have a field day just like they did in Iraq and Afghanistan.  The Chicoms would not have such an easy time infiltrating south as they did against X Corp in 1950.
 
With regard to casualties, there is no doubt that the improved equipment, training and leadership has led to unparalleled reduction of casualties.  There is another factor that probably contributed to it as well, improved morale and living conditions which impact psychologic health of the soldier or Marine.  In 1941 the enlistment or consciption term was for the duration.  There were only three prospects for returning stateside: victory, death or wounding.  Some men served for three or more years without respite, only periods of training preparing for the next high casualty assault or offensive.  Imagine the impact that had on morale.  I have read more than one account where the despondency was palpable.  They resolved themselves by considering themselves already dead.  It was the only way to get through the day.  Living conditions were abysmal even when not in combat.  I can only imagine the real rates of suicide and self inflicted wounds that occurred over seas.  Much less the PSTD related rates of suicide that occurred unrecorded after the war.  Is our culture becoming whimpified?  Maybe, since we wring our hands over 6,000 plus KIA over twelve years, when there were 418,000 KIAs over  in period of 46 months.  Lets break that down.  These are averages, and to be sure, the majority of casualties were suffered in the period from late 1942- mid-1945 (37 months, but we will use the whole period of the war, lowering the average tallies somewhat.  There were: 9089 KIA a month, 2271 KIAs a week. 324 KIAs a day.  So the current conflict totals for 12 years are about 2/3d the total of one MONTH of WWII fighting.  And on top of this these casualties are from a population about 1/3d the size of the population in the US today.  Make your own judgement about our culture's intestinal fortitude today compared with what it was 70 years ago.  I admire and sympathize with the Soldiers, Marines Sailors and Airmen in the service today.  I grew up around your predessessors for 20 odd years.  You deserve only the best.  Sadly your predessessors in WWII and Korea did not get that and they suffered accordingly.  Leadership was also questionable, even among the socalled professionals.  I recall reading the bio Marine! when I was younger.  Puller had my admiration until I read accounts of other Marines who serve with or under him.  My opinion changed after reading several accounts of the Pelileu campaign.  He might have been highly decorated, but he was far from the god like figure that the Corps paints and to whom they recently erected a statue to.  Many would say he was an incompetent, ego driven butcher. 
 
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tteng       2/28/2013 8:42:21 PM
Wrong way of evaluating 'effectiveness' of hegemonic power.
 
It's not 'how many that were killed' on our side, but on the other side.
 
It seems the more we killed, or as result of our mil.activity, (i.e. Iraqi and Afghan deaths), the less our 'credibility' as world's cop.
 
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Gerry       2/28/2013 9:39:36 PM
.  Leadership was also questionable, even among the socalled professionals.  I recall reading the bio Marine! when I was younger.  Puller had my admiration until I read accounts of other Marines who serve with or under him.  My opinion changed after reading several accounts of the Pelileu campaign.  He might have been highly decorated, but he was far from the god like figure that the Corps paints and to whom they recently erected a statue to.  Many would say he was an incompetent, ego driven butcher. 

Many have critisized Puller over the pelileu campaign, yet it fell down to "it was the only way to take the objective" The Japanese were very well dug in caves and fires intersected, so that no amount of artillery or bombs could have dug them out. The all out approach was the only way. He got the job done at the expense of his regiment.

 
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Don Vandervelde    Asymmetric combat American Style   3/1/2013 12:43:43 AM
   
   You've got that right Vahi!  Thanks!  I only wish our own bone-headed greybeard strategists were as wise.  Instead of meeting them toe to toe with massed armies on the Asian mainland,  We should loudly denouce their horrific human rights policies.  Overtly and Covertly support democratic dissidents inside and outside of China, especially in their rebellious provinces such as Tibet and western, even muslim, ones, then forming a government-in-exile to take over when the China Commies do fall.   As you suggest, we should vigorously support a coalition of freedom-loving and willing allies  on the periphery, such a Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, Philipines,  SouthVeitnam and even North Vietnam,who maintains historic deep-seated grudges against the Chinese, Australia, and others.
 
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ugh212       3/1/2013 3:31:56 AM
KIA from DNBI (Disease Non-Battle Injury) was higher in past conflicts. Also the techniques and equipment to treat wounds all changed over the course of those wars. Even an injury that would result in a KIA in 2003 was savable in 2007. We were able to save limbs more often later on and had surgery closer to the point of injury. Medevac time
improved too.
AF Medic

 

 



 
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Diogenes       3/3/2013 1:45:50 PM
I think the article would have been more reflective of the situation in China if it had addressed the social consequences of a high casualty rates upon China's "one-child" society.   I have not seen this issue addressed anywhere else in analytical journals, or websites. 
 
Can the Chinese people really be expected to support a war (or at least not protest it) that costs them the lives of their only Male heir?    As it currently stands, the one-child policy merges two family lineages (that of the mother, and that of the father) into one.    So when a Chinese soldier dies, it represents the elimination of both of those family lines.   And those grieving parents will likely be too old to have another child.
 
When the brutal reality of losing thousands of Chinese sons (ie: historical family lineages) to some politically driven resource war over S. China Oil/NG hits home, it's hard to believe it would not undermine the political control of the power elite in Bejing.. 
 
It would be interesting to see Strategy Page's writers address this in a future article.. 
 
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