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Subject: Israel Orders More F-35s
SYSOP    2/26/2015 5:41:25 AM
 
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bob sykes       2/26/2015 8:06:03 AM
The Air Force hopes to buy a little over 1700 F35A's. But considering what happened with the B1, B2, and F22, they will likely get only 600 to 700 of them.
 
How will that affect future Air Force operations and deployments? 
 
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keffler25       2/26/2015 8:12:40 AM
If the Israelis see something there despite the cost, then maybe the critics are wrong?
 
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Reactive       2/26/2015 8:55:44 AM
I think it also shares the same dilemma as every F-35 partner nation including the US, namely, what alternative is there? 
 
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keffler25       2/26/2015 9:15:07 AM
Rafale, Typhoon, and Gripen.
 
Rafale is 1980s tech and air combat ideas in a 1990s airframe. And France won't sell.
 
Typhoon has political issues and it is too air superiority limited. 
 
Gripen lacks air endurance minutes to meet Israeli needs, plus there are political issues. 
 
I suppose when Japan develops a native capability it can be a second source, but for now if you want a regional bomber that can hit eastern Iran and western Egypt, it has to be the F-35. 
I think it also shares the same dilemma as every F-35 partner nation including the US, namely, what alternative is there? 

 
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joe6pack       2/26/2015 10:58:13 AM
>I suppose when Japan develops a native capability it can be a second source
 
As I understand things (which always leaves open the probability of me being wrong), Japan is unable to export anything that could be an "offensive" weapon.  Pretty much limits their defense industry to the SDF..
 
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tteng       2/26/2015 11:16:04 AM
CNO Admiral Greenert is already hinting the Navy wants to back off its F-35 commitment- because it is 'not fast enough, and not stealth enough'. The Navy bought a grand total of 2 F-35 for 2015. We will see how that F-35 saga continue to play. BTW, I'm all for Israel- but did it ever paid for its US-made arms with its own money?
 
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Yimmy       2/26/2015 1:23:53 PM
As a result of the Japanese consultant and journalist being killed by IS, in addition to the longer running pressure from an expansionist China, there is now real chance that Japan will change their constitution with regard to overseas deployments and arms sales.  But, there is also a lot of reactionary pressure of course I believe.
 
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HR    F-35 is not understood...   2/26/2015 1:25:24 PM
First of all it is the USMC version that is critical. That version will turn our amphibs and our allies smaller carriers into fighting machines that they could not even have dreamed before their arrival when all they had where those old-old Harriers. This is real power power projection and capacity that is being added.
 
Second... the larger carriers have not had a ship-borne aircraft threat with good range since they retired the A-6. The F-35C will improve things in that regard which will be critical if we have to fight anyone from beyond the first island chain in the South China Sea. The F-18 simply does not have the range for this sort of power projection.
 
Third is the Air Force and their F-22 cancellation has left the F-35 as the only game in town and they are highly dependent on its success.
 
For foreign buyers facing high threats the alternatives are three...
 
Eurofighters (proven)
Rafaels ( question marks about their continued production after the French government completes their acquisitions)
PAK FA T50- (also lots of question marks)
 
We also know from war gaming that the F-22's sensors and so will the F-35 sensors make EVERYONE more deadly in aerial combat. So legacy air crafts will fly with the F-35's using the latter as mini-AWACS. 
 
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tobiathan    Japan arms exports   2/26/2015 4:33:31 PM
With the rise of China Japan will, by necessity, have to develop a competitive arms capability just to remain survivable versus an aggressive China. Otherwise Japan would be at the mercy of foreign political whims or Chinese influence.
 
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Nate Dog    Japan and other stuff   2/26/2015 5:30:15 PM
Joe,
You're correct as far as Japanese constitution goes re exporting offensive arms being illegal.
They're re-writing it as we speak, Australia is on the cusp of spending $20 billion + to buy a dozen Submarines. That kind of money will get the ink flowing, and i suspect things would be no different when it comes to large plane sales.
 
Keffler, i thought that too.
Despite owning F-16I's with conformal fuel tanks plus all the other goodies they come with, Israel still procuring F-35A so there must be something to it. Not to mention that they are also upgrading the existing fleet to the F-16I configuration and on top of that STILL buying the F-35A. That's the part we should really be taking notice of.
 
IDF purchasing from US military firms. Think someone asked does Israel use any of its own money. In a nutshell, yes. Bucket loads of it. Israel's GDP is over $400 billion annually, because of its predicament, despite publicly stating the figure is only 7% of GPD, defence spending in all facets (logistics, duel use, backend, etc..) is closer to 20% if not higher. Even if it is only the stated $18 billion dollars annually, less than a 1/3 of that is wages (conscription army) which leaves some $10 billion to be spent every year…. As the IDF uses either home grown or made in U.S.A. for over 90% of its equipment, what do you think? Yes, Israel spends far more with US defence companies than any other country on earth.
Those Italian jet trainers IDF just bought has been the biggest non-US purchase in the IDF's history. Stupid US firms for not having a competitor when the worlds busiest air force goes shopping. 
 
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