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Subject: Latin America Orders Chinese
SYSOP    3/3/2015 5:27:43 AM
 
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keffler25       3/3/2015 9:22:44 AM
March 3, 2015: China is making a major effort to become the largest exporter to Latin America (South America and the Caribbean). One of the major offerings is not cheap consumer goods but military equipment. This stuff is not only cheaper than anything the Americans have but is also sold without any restrictions. Over the last few decades the United States has added a growing list of conditions to its military exports. All these are directed at withholding weapons from any nation who that does not meet current American standards for political correctness. China has long ignored that sort of thing sold to anyone (openly or clandestinely) to anyone who could pay. China also realizes (as do most South American military leaders) that these countries do not need the best (as in American) weapons just something as good as or a little better than what their neighbors have.
 
Once upon a time the United States took its eye off the Monroe Doctrine and allowed two gangster nations (Great Britain and  Germany to sell weapons and equipment to a couple of South American 'republics' [dictatorships] so that the two puffed up caudillos could indulge in machismo and fight a war over an elevated salt flat so hostile that not even a buzzard could be sure of making it across. 
 
After both states bankrupted themselves and killed a half  million people, the dimwitted  Roosevelt Administration (Franklin not Theodore; Theodore would have demarched all the bastards right off as he was wont to do; See Russo Japanese War for an example) sent a negotiator to talk the morons to the table, while other American representatives went to London Berlin and Prague and cut off the arms shipments at the source by cutting off the credit lines at the European banks involved..   
 
This is a repeat. It's gonna BITE someone in the rump.   
 
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trenchsol       3/3/2015 12:26:34 PM
Keffler, I don't quite understand your point. It does happen in South America and arms are about to be sold, and that is as far as your analogy goes. Argentine has disputes with Chile and UK, but there are no signs that it is going to start a war. China made some sales to Venezuela recently (L-15 aircraft), and Venezuela is more likely to start a conflict at the moment. Is that what you meant ?
 
As far as I know, Argentine is, officially, bankrupt. They defaulted on their debt and not paying it back. Selling goods to someone who doesn't pay is more like giving away. It is clear that Chine expects something else, other than money, in return.
 
 
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WarNerd       3/3/2015 1:06:38 PM
As far as I know, Argentine is, officially, bankrupt. They defaulted on their debt and not paying it back. Selling goods to someone who doesn't pay is more like giving away. It is clear that Chine expects something else, other than money, in return.
 Venezuela is effectively bankrupt, too.  It is being kept up by Chinese loans being paid for with oil shipments.  China undoubtedly expects to create something similar with Argentina.  It follows their strategy of locking up control of resources.
 
We will know how well it works in a year or 2 after Venezuela implodes.
 
 
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keffler25       3/3/2015 1:12:54 PM
Venezuela. WN and you got it in 1; but Argentina is suspect too.

 

As far as I know, Argentine is, officially, bankrupt. They defaulted on their debt and not paying it back. Selling goods to someone who doesn't pay is more like giving away. It is clear that Chine expects something else, other than money, in return.

 

 
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HR    War Nerd   3/3/2015 5:59:47 PM
There is a big difference between Venezuela and Argentina... The former has very little population in relation to its wealth and could right itself in just a few years of good governance but the latter does not have such ability requiring far longer to dig itself out of the hole it is in.
 
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HR    Trenchsol   3/3/2015 6:07:48 PM
The objective of the USA in Latin America is political stability. Weapon sales are calibrated not to create an arm race or give any state's military carte blanch to take sides in political fight. China or Russia does not care for any of this.
 
Plus some one like China see Sales like these as a way to balance the books with us and pay us back for our support for Taiwan, Japan, Philippines, etc. and Russia as a way to "help" us think twice about troops in Poland. 
 
If you want an example look no further than the Sales of jets to Venezuela by China. That created worries in Brazil who thought it necessary for themselves to also modernize, etc. Argentina and Chile are enemies and they could do something to each other too if they have the tools.
 
So it would be more helpful if they kept the region a little less armed.
 
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trenchsol       3/3/2015 11:42:55 PM
HR, Argentina has all kinds of natural resources, not sure what China might be after.
 
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keffler25       3/3/2015 11:59:55 PM
Rare earths, lead, zinc, tin, copper, iron ore, manganese, petroleum, uranium
Argentinians are the only nation aside from South Africa south of the equator to demonstrate the capacity to build an atomic bomb using native science, technology, and resources. Australia possesses the brains but lacks some of the means.
 
Fundamentally the Argentinians are South America's leaders in bio-sciences by a wide margin. They would give the US a run for its money in medical technology, especially in cardiovascular disease research.
 
Chinese nuclear reactors are CRAP. Guess what Argentina is good at making? 
 
Yep. Reactors. Specifically for medical applications and research. 

HR, Argentina has all kinds of natural resources, not sure what China might be after.

 
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HR    trenchsol   3/5/2015 11:15:52 AM
I think China is trying to sell weapons. That and gain influence.
 
And you are right about trade. China is a resource starved economy. They have been making these sort of deals in Africa too... to gain access to resources.
 
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