Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Weapons of the World Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Ratnik Keeps The Kalishnikov Alive
SYSOP    2/23/2015 6:20:54 AM
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5   NEXT
trenchsol       2/23/2015 6:57:50 AM
AK-12 doesn't seem to have any technology that might be patented, at first glance. Does it mean that Chinese clone might be expected ?

 
Quote    Reply

frylock       2/23/2015 11:58:42 AM
Since when do the Chinese worry about patents?
 
Quote    Reply

joe6pack       2/23/2015 3:35:22 PM
A quick review, doesn't seem to show any major improvements over the AK-74..  It weighs a little more..  there doesn't seem to be anything definitive on accuracy (guessing it's improved..) Dunno..  guess I'd like to see one up close.
 
 
On this front:
"The Ratnik system is the Russian version of an American concept pioneered in the 1980s ("Land Warrior") and resulted in the introduction of new body armor, personal communications, wearable computers, night vision devices, and personal medical equipment. Several European countries have followed, especially the German Infanterist der Zukunft (“Infantryman Of The Future”)
 
Hmm.. guess the Russians didn't learn the real lesson out of the 5 star #(*&*(@  up, that was the hole that money for "Land Warrior" got flushed...
 
Quote    Reply

tteng       2/23/2015 4:07:17 PM
In the current Ukraine war, I see both sides' infantry were well body-armored, which led me to wonder- can these 22-cal high velocity round really defeat these armor (especially if one decides to develop some kind of composite, next gen body armor...after all, these rounds were developed before the advent of body armor, and it does not appear to be a rocket science type of challenge.)  Also, I never saw the Russians and Ukrainian solders really 'aim and fire'; it's spray and suppress and let the heavies (i.e. arty, tank, rpg...etc) do the work.  Most of casualties, on both sides, looked pretty smashed up and done in by heavy weapons.
 
Quote    Reply

JFKY    tteng   2/23/2015 4:49:50 PM
it's always a race between armour & armour-defeating ammunition.  Right now, IIRC, from sales brochures, SAPI & ESAPI are proof to Armour-Piercing Ammunition in the 5.56 range.....two BUTS:
1. But, that will change as ammunition evolves; and
2. This protection comes at a pretty in cost in terms of weight, loss of mobility, & don't forget, though the round does not penetrate the carapace of the human, all the foot-pounds of energy are STILL xsferred to the target...you will be knocked around & bruised, ribs broken possibly.  It's better than being dead, but it's not like you are INVULNERABLE.
 
Quote    Reply

joe6pack       2/23/2015 4:52:19 PM
"an these 22-cal high velocity round really defeat these armor (especially if one decides to develop some kind of composite, next gen body armor"
 
Actually, the high velocity, small caliber rounds tend to perform better against body armor than the heavier, slower rounds.
 
Quote    Reply

joe6pack       2/23/2015 4:55:17 PM
>2. This protection comes at a pretty in cost in terms of weight, loss of mobility,
 
Concur.. while I'm devout believer in the current generation of body armor.. the best bet is not getting hit in the first place.. and the reduction in mobility doesn't help at all in that arena.
 
Quote    Reply

Nate Dog    Don't believe everything you see on TV   2/23/2015 5:31:40 PM
Maybe when it comes to those retards killing each other in the middle east, but, 
Anything you see is almost certainly staged for the camera crew if you're watching battles between real armies.
One thing i can assure you, on real missions in real fire fights, there's no camera crew within a few kilometres of the real action, so i doubt very much how accurate what you're seeing is. Probably not very.
 
As to the age old argument, armour or mobility.. Finding the happy medium, again, most of what you see those troops wearing is against shrapnel, without the ballistic impact ceramic inserts, they add some real weight and greatly reduce mobility.
Joe, there were lots of programs like that. U.S. sunk money into countless projects in the 80's. Soviets followed suit on most of them. Difference being, US is so affluent it could afford to squander money on shit, whereas the Soviets went bust trying to keep up. 
 
Quote    Reply

Nate Dog    then theres this   2/23/2015 5:42:42 PM
 
Also, there was another article on Janes about this competition a few months back, can't find it in the 30 seconds scrounge, but from my poor memory, the AK-12 was the cheapest of the lot and didn't bring much to the table that wasn't already there with the AK-74. There were a couple of other entrants that were much better rifles, but like the U.S. competition, they appear to have been discounted because they were too expensive. Soldiers as it turns out are far too cheap to equip with the best you can find. 
 
Quote    Reply

trenchsol       2/23/2015 6:26:17 PM


A quick review, doesn't seem to show any major improvements over the AK-74..  It weighs a little more..  there doesn't seem to be anything definitive on accuracy (guessing it's improved..) Dunno..  guess I'd like to see one up close.

One thing is obvious, rear sight is where it is supposed to be. Russians claim it is more accurate when firing bursts. I supposed they compared 5.45 version with Ak-74. It has  adjustable stock and comes with rails for mounting accessories. One can replace barrel to change caliber.
 
Reminds me of Polish Beryl a little bit.
 
Some of the AK's must be very old now. Earliest AK-74's are 40 years old now.
 
Considering Chinese, they probably should worry about patents when the product is for export market.
 
 
Quote    Reply
1 2 3 4 5   NEXT



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics