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Subject: The truth about the 5.56mm round
TriggaFingaz    1/24/2004 1:51:19 PM
To all infantrymen and gunusers out there , tell me this: is the 5.56x45mm round an effective round or is it so weak that you need more than one shot to drop a man? Some books say that it is absolutely lethal, able to stop one's heart owing to sheer velocity. Other accounts claim that enemy soldiers hit with this round continue charging. Some books claim it will tumble and dig multiple wound channels in the body, detractors claim it drills straight though people but yet has poor anti-material penetration. Which is more accurate? Please specify whether you used M193 or M855 'green tips'.
 
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johnny_rotten    My two cents worth   12/29/2009 6:47:30 PM
Lots of good comment on this topic. Let me add my two cents worth.
 
I'm of two minds when it comes to bullets/weapons. I think shockwave (read high speed/velocity) is exceptionally important. When you reload (and I do) you see two figures in most charts at each range. The first is feet per second (fps) and the second is foot pounds kinetic energy (ke). If you could accellerate a BB too say a substantial portion of the speed of light it would do immense damage to anything it comes in contact with. The problem is that it has no momentum and as a result immediately dissipates its energy.
 
The other end of the spectrum is a big heavy anchor moving about the speed of a good pitchers arm. The .45 is this way. A big heavy bullet with a lot of momentum. The Phoenix PD switched for awhile to .45 acp as the default firearm instead of the .38 because the velocity was not high enough to penetrate and continue doing damage potentially in the crowd down the street. The .38 has a bad rep. for not stopping anything and not stopping.
 
As a hunter I can say the one shot kill is surprisingly difficult. This is why center of mass shots are taught for most law enforcement and basic military training purposes. I watched a video the other day on youtube where a guy had a 300 ultra magnum ricochet off his target directly back at him and hit him in the top of the head. Fortunately for him, the angle of impact was almost 0 degrees but he did complain of a substantial headache http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emwink.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" alt="" />.
 
I watched an idiotic friend and my not so smart little brother insist upon shooting a copper jacketed 110 gr 30-30 at a steel target from about 30 yards away. I was yelling you're stupid when I ducked behind some solid protection. After I heard the shot, I looked up to see both of them on the ground writhing in pain. I thought they were yanking my chain but they were not. Fortunately though the damage was minimal as it had been infliced entirely with the copper jacket of the bullet (maybe 5 gr worth). The lead part disintegrated and the small circular part of the base came back as two pieces and hit the idiot in the testicle and his rube friend in the knee. Fortunately for me I didn't have to perform surgery in the wild on either one.
 
The reason I bring this up is that bullet type has a lot to do with kill power also. An armor piercing round shot at distance will not disintegrate and will not have high ke and as a result will penetrate or lodge without as much damage as you may desire. The nuts and bolts of it are, go out and shoot a bit and see what works for you. If you want to shoot a high speed .22 (read the M-16) that's fine as long as you know what you're using it for. I prefer my big 300 Win Mag. There's no such thing as too much dead.
 
 
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johnny_rotten    My two cents worth   12/29/2009 8:16:43 PM
Lots of good comment on this topic. Let me add my two cents worth.
 
I'm of two minds when it comes to bullets/weapons. I think shockwave (read high speed/velocity) is exceptionally important. When you reload (and I do) you see two figures in most charts at each range. The first is feet per second (fps) and the second is foot pounds kinetic energy (ke). If you could accellerate a BB too say a substantial portion of the speed of light it would do immense damage to anything it comes in contact with. The problem is that it has no momentum and as a result immediately dissipates its energy.
 
The other end of the spectrum is a big heavy anchor moving about the speed of a good pitchers arm. The .45 is this way. A big heavy bullet with a lot of momentum. The Phoenix PD switched for awhile to .45 acp as the default firearm instead of the .38 because the velocity was not high enough to penetrate and continue doing damage potentially in the crowd down the street. The .38 has a bad rep. for not stopping anything and not stopping.
 
As a hunter I can say the one shot kill is surprisingly difficult. This is why center of mass shots are taught for most law enforcement and basic military training purposes. I watched a video the other day on youtube where a guy had a 300 ultra magnum ricochet off his target directly back at him and hit him in the top of the head. Fortunately for him, the angle of impact was almost 0 degrees but he did complain of a substantial headache http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emwink.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" alt="" />.
 
I watched an idiotic friend and my not so smart little brother insist upon shooting a copper jacketed 110 gr 30-30 at a steel target from about 30 yards away. I was yelling you're stupid when I ducked behind some solid protection. After I heard the shot, I looked up to see both of them on the ground writhing in pain. I thought they were yanking my chain but they were not. Fortunately though the damage was minimal as it had been infliced entirely with the copper jacket of the bullet (maybe 5 gr worth). The lead part disintegrated and the small circular part of the base came back as two pieces and hit the idiot in the testicle and his rube friend in the knee. Fortunately for me I didn't have to perform surgery in the wild on either one.
 
The reason I bring this up is that bullet type has a lot to do with kill power also. An armor piercing round shot at distance will not disintegrate and will not have high ke and as a result will penetrate or lodge without as much damage as you may desire. The nuts and bolts of it are, go out and shoot a bit and see what works for you. If you want to shoot a high speed .22 (read the M-16) that's fine as long as you know what you're using it for. I prefer my big 300 Win Mag. There's no such thing as too much dead.
 
 
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gergar12       7/10/2011 5:11:33 PM
We need a new round now more than ever. The retarded nato 7.62x51 has way to much recoil and the 5.56 needs alot of rounds. I think that if the ak 47 the tablan use had just a less recoil we be srew. I call for a 6.8 round or a 7.0 round which they do have. And even the m4 itself jams alot. We need good weapons and good traning. The ak47 has powerful round and if it was a close combat sitution than our troops will be at a high risk. Sure you can carry a alot of rounds But it needs a better middle point than 5.56.
 
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Hamilcar21       7/10/2011 6:37:28 PM

Facts not myths.

Learn.

H.


 
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Barton       7/11/2011 2:50:20 PM
Thanks H. for the link. That is good info, and it should be looked at by all people in this thread.
 
I really liked the analysis on that link. That is consistent with what doctors and medic report about wounds caused by the various projectiles.
 
My two cents, love heavier rounds (.45 ACP and 30-06 from my M 1917 rifle and M1 Garand), but the smaller round 5.56mm wins in combat. More ammo a man can carry, means more lead downrange, that causes more enemy to become dead.
 
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