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Subject: 5.45x39mm x 5.56x45mm
Galderio    8/16/2004 10:40:02 AM
The 5.56 is more powerfull(how much?), but the russians say that their 5.45X39mm has less recoil and is more precise on automatic mode. Does anybody knows anythings about it. Why nobody talks about the ak-74 family?
 
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andyf    RE:5.45x39mm x 5.56x45mm    8/16/2004 12:34:28 PM
it is,,, 5.56 nato has around 1600 joules the russian 5.45 has about 1100 joules it means that the nato one is more hurty and will kick more. but they still arent much cop past 200 m
 
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ripsaw    RE:5.45x39mm x 5.56x45mm    8/29/2004 5:58:08 AM
the russian 5.45x39mm ammo has a hollow space in the tip to make it unstable. it isn't a hollow point because the bullet jacket fully encloses the tip. the reason they designed it this way was to make it unstable so that it would tumble on impact. try throwing a dart backwards and you will understand how having the weight of the bullet in the back makes it want to tumble.it also doesn't help accuracy. the reason you don't hear much about the ak74 is that it is so mechanically similar to an ak47. the only notable difference aside from the ammo is that the ak74 has an extremely efficient muzzle brake that reduces felt recoil significantly. the downside is that it can cause hearing damage to any soldiers beside the shooter.
 
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IsoT    RE:5.45x39mm x 5.56x45mm AK-74 family   9/23/2004 10:51:43 AM
Hi, Russians have been a bit dissapointed with 5.45 penetration in urban setting and maybe overall. They felt the 5.45 was enough in Afganistan, but in Grosny enviroment leaves something to be desired. That is why troops in grosny are have been issued with AK-47 to some extend as well. But '74 may be more lethal overall weapon than the 47 beacuse of more developed round. 7.62M43 has double the energy 5.45 has so it is not as nice to shoot.
 
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Maratha    Advantage 5.45mm   12/6/2004 9:55:35 AM
Everybody has made a valid point here. The point of a hollow tip was very valid as it improved the wound characteristics of the bullet especially in soft body target (because of tumble effect as already suggested by someone). But that also reduced penetration especially with even limited body armour. Perhaps the key would be to use different ammo for different battle scenarios (which vey feasible as every one get a battle brief !) But still the 5.45 mm ammo is known to have better flight characteristics and keep striaght for longer ranges (as the AK74 is also used in support roles)
 
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Yimmy    RE:Advantage 5.45mm   12/6/2004 1:08:52 PM
The Afghans called the Russian 4.35x39.5mm round the "poison bullet", for the way it could go in your chest and come out your arse. It is superior than 5.56mm NATO on wounding, in that its hollow will still cause the round to yaw quickly and change directing in soft tissue even when shot at distance, with dwindling velocity; the 5.56mm round on the other hand needs high velocity (<150m's from 21 inch barrel), to fragment and cause large wound cavities. However, the 5.56mm round can go through more steal/kevlar than the Russian round, so its all a trade off.
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:Advantage 5.45mm   12/23/2004 12:09:08 PM
And the tumbling and fragmentation characteristics of 5.56mm depends very greatly on which 5.56mm round you are discussing -- 55 grain M193 behaves differently than 62 grain SS109 and the 77 grain round fired by the SPR is, again, different (and rather less pleasant to be on the receiving end of). The strongest commentary on 5.45mm as a round, I believe, is that fact that the Russians are said to have partially switched back to 7.62x39mm for operations in Chechnya. Also, the switch back to the older rounds is said to include their special operations types, who should be better with bullet placement than the rank and file, which suggests they are having lethality problems even with torso hits. If I had to guess, I would say they are seeing the same sort of issues as you see with 5.56mm -- the round is dynamite when it behaves as advertised, but if it fails to tumble it's just a knitting needle (and, given Russian industry, I'd be very hesitant on any round whose effectiveness relied on quality control issues during production).
 
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Galderio    RE:5.45x39mm x 5.56x45mm    12/27/2004 8:26:49 AM
It pierces 1.6 cm of steel at 330fts. Is it not enough?
 
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Professor Fickle       6/12/2008 6:42:54 PM

And the tumbling and fragmentation characteristics of 5.56mm depends very greatly on which 5.56mm round you are discussing -- 55 grain M193 behaves differently than 62 grain SS109 and the 77 grain round fired by the SPR is, again, different (and rather less pleasant to be on the receiving end of).


looking at the shape of the 5.45 and comparing the 6.5 Grendel(both have a case length of 39mm and similar overall length), it should have good ballistics's. however, i have yet to see a single web site to show either ballistic table or mention its B.C. (ballistic coefficient)       
 
any one know the B.C of the 5.45

 
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Horsesoldier       6/16/2008 8:57:36 PM


looking at the shape of the 5.45 and comparing the 6.5 Grendel(both have a case length of 39mm and similar overall length), it should have good ballistics's. however, i have yet to see a single web site to show either ballistic table or mention its B.C. (ballistic coefficient)       

 

any one know the B.C of the 5.45


Thread from the dead :)
Not sure what the BC on 5.45mm ammo is, but it should be pretty good with the long form of the bullet.

 
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