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Subject: Question on pistol and revolver calibers?
PeregrinePike    2/18/2005 8:16:13 AM
there are many pistols and revolvers that have .22 and .357 calibers... but what confuses me is that... can a .22 pistol or a revolver hold the many varieties of .22 cartiridges that come like Long Rifle, Magnum etc? Similarly... can a .357 SigPro pistol hold the .357 Magnum variety meant for a revolver, and vice-versa? Or is there a difference in the cartridge lengths that make such interchanging impossible?
 
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displacedjim    RE:Question on pistol and revolver calibers?   2/18/2005 9:00:12 AM
Very few cartridges are interoperable in any way. Of the few that are, mainly they are useable with another round, but only in "one direction"--meaning a first cartridge can be fired in a firearm chambered for a second cartridge, but the second can not be fired in a firearm chambered for the first. Essentially if you have two cartridges and they have two different nomenclatures, it's because they have enough differences (case length, diameter, necked or straight walled, angle of taper, rimmed or rimless) that they are not interchangeable. The few examples that can be are pretty much all because one cartridge is a development based on the other, and the round using the shorter case can still chamber in a firearm designed for the longer case round. Examples include .38 S&W Special in a .357 S&W Magnum, .44 S&W Special in a .44 S&W Magnum, the various shorter .22 rimfires in a .22 Long Rifle chmaber, all of those in a .22 Magnum. There are a couple handguns, like certain old Astras that sometimes can chamber and fire a couple of the nearly but not quite identical 9mm cartridges (9x23 Largo, 9x23 Steyr, 9x23 Bergman-Bayard) but I don't think anyone thinks this is intentional nor a good thing. It's a pretty safe bet that if the cartridge has a designation different than the chambering of the firearm, then they are not meant for each other. Displacedjim
 
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Ehran    RE:Question on pistol and revolver calibers?   2/18/2005 1:52:47 PM
revolver rounds are rimmed so they seat into the cylinder properly. auto pistol rounds are not rimmed so even if they are the same calibre etc they are not interchangeable. an exception to this are the desert eagles which are built to fire rimmed rounds in various magnum calibres. ammo is easy to get in the US for them but you pay for this by not being able to have a double column mag ie less rounds. course if it's still moving after you put 7 .44 mags into it you are pretty much hosed anyhow ;) .
 
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PeregrinePike    RE:Question on pistol and revolver calibers?   2/18/2005 2:00:55 PM
Thanks... ... I am still confused on how .38 specials can be used .357 magnum pistols? I mean, wont the barrel be too narrow for it to fire? or are the specs for barrel different?
 
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displacedjim    RE:Question on pistol and revolver calibers?   2/18/2005 2:57:37 PM
No, they're identical diameter bullets. The .357 Magnum is the exact same outside dimensions as the .38 Special, except th ecase is .1 inch longer, and the SAAMI spec pressures are much higher. Caliber nomenclature follows a somewhat arcane system of logic diluted by tradition and marketing hype. Most designations of caliber are reasonably related to the diameter of the bullet, but while usually it's based on the barrel diameter at the top of the lands sometimes (particularly from "ye olde days" firing soft lead unjacketed bullets) it's based on the bottoms of the grooves, and other times it's rounded off/up to a number that somebody things sounds good or sounds different (e.g., .38, which has the exact same bullet diameter as the .357 Magnum, .357 inch). For example, bullet diameter for .44 Special and .44 Magnum is .429, while bullet diameter for .45 ACP is .451, while bullet diameter for .45 Colt (the famous Old West revolver cartridge) is .454. Bullet diameter for the .308 Winchester (which has the same dimensions, though not the same SAAMI specs, as the 7.62x51 NATO) and .30-'06 Winchester (which is the same as the U.S. military .30 cal) are both .308, while the 7.62x39 M43 is .311, along with the .303 Lee-Enfield and the 7.65x54 "Argentine" Mauser. Confused yet? If not, there's a thousand more examples. Displacedjim
 
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PeregrinePike    RE:Question on pistol and revolver calibers?   2/18/2005 7:49:31 PM
Wow, I think I need to hire an armorer before I buy 2 guns, just to be safe ;-) One last question... do you know if .357 SigPro can be used in a .357 Magnum revolver? Just out of curiosity. I have decided to stick with 9X19 mm - which seem to be a universally accepted measure, and comes in with a good choice of inexpensive bullets - unless that is off to? Is it?
 
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CJH    RE:Question on pistol and revolver calibers?   2/19/2005 4:49:07 PM
I believe the SigPro is the pistol made by SIG SAUER which comes in .40 S&W, 9MM and .357 SIG. The (mostly) revolver .357/.38 SPL chamberings are for straight wall rimmed .357 and .38 SPL cases. The .357 SIG pistol round is made for semi automatic pistols and the case is bottle necked like rifle cases and is rimless like the .45 ACP. The .357/.38 SPL cases headspace on the case rim while the .357 SIG headspaces on the case shoulder which is the place where there case begins to neck down. Headspacing refers to where the case contacts the inside of the chamber so that the firing pin can compress the primer without the case moving forward when it strikes the primer.
 
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displacedjim    RE:Question on pistol and revolver calibers?   2/19/2005 7:04:09 PM
PP -- like I said the first time, "It's a pretty safe bet that if the cartridge has a designation different than the chambering of the firearm, then they are not meant for each other." No, you absolutely can not use .357 SIG ammo in a .357 S&W Magnum firearm, nor can you use .357 S&W Magnum ammo in a .357 SIG firearm. Neither cartridge will even fit in the chamber of the other weapon. If you buy a handgun chambered in .357 SIG, then you will have to buy .357 SIG ammo for it. As it turns out in this instance, .357 SIG is nearly equal in ballistic performance to .357 S&W Magnum, so there's not much difference performance-wise. I'm not sure what you mean regarding 9x19; it's still one of the most popular calibers in use today and comes in a wide variety of performance levels and cost, so it's a versitile choice. Displacedjim
 
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PeregrinePike    RE:Question on pistol and revolver calibers?   2/19/2005 9:41:38 PM
Thanks all of you!
 
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gixxxerking    RE:Question on pistol and revolver calibers?   2/19/2005 10:01:44 PM
I have a Sig P229 and a S&W 640. The Sig is able to fire .357 sig and .40 S&W from tht same magazine with a barrel change. The barrels cost 100 to 150 USD. The S&W 640 will fire either .38 Special or .357 Magnum with no modifications. But the recoil is a bitch with the .357 Mag and only 5 rounds. But in my experience no target is likely to be more than a few meters away and by the time 5 rounds are fired the fight is over. In most off duty or armed civilian situation.
 
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gixxxerking    RE:Question on pistol and revolver calibers?   2/19/2005 10:05:16 PM
P.S. .40 S&W more plentiful and cheaper than .357 Sig. By far .357 Sig more accurate IMO. Recoil is managable on follow up shots with practice. A little snappier with .357 Sig and more muzzle flash and noise.
 
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