Never Submit

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Subject: Never Submit
RockyMTNClimber 4/17/2007 11:36:57 AM

Would a 9-11 type hijacking work today? No, because if someone jumped up with a knife and tried to hijack a plane, the passengers would swarm the bastard and beat him to a pulp. In fact the "shoe bomber" was detained that way. Starting from day one we should teach aggressive defense techniques not passive-submissive responses to threats. If everyone in a lecture hall throws their books,backpacks,shoes,laptops,chairs,and desks at a threat, he will have a tough time with his marksmanship. He could then be swarmed and dispatched. This needs to be taught early and often. If the first class the Virginia Tech shooter attacked had responded this way he probably would have hit several people but not made it much further. Teach response not submission. Check Six Rocky

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longrifle 4/17/2007 4:14:51 PM

If you find yourself in the kill zone of a near ambush the surest way to die is to lay there and hope you won't be hit. You must assault the ambush the way a boxer has to counter punch instead of covering up. There's no guarantees and anything is possible, but this is probable: if you assault you might die and if you don't assault you will die.

When faced with the will die/might die option most people want to keep searching for a won't die option. It's not there. Doing anything or doing nothing can get you killed, so it becomes a matter of possibilities and probabilities.

Remember that you are suffering from a disease called life. It's sexually transmitted and always fatal.

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Jeff_F_F 4/20/2007 5:21:04 PM

As the samurai said "Those who fear death will die, those who have no fear of death will live." I think of that every time reation to an ambush comes up.

The other problem is that all college campuses forbid their students carrying guns. It should at least be permitted with a valid concealed carry permit. That would have stopped this situation.

Personally, I like the idea of teaching kids to attack school gunmen by throwing books at them and then mobbing them with pencils. News reports of some 30 year old sicko being carried out of a school on a streacher crying like a sissy looking like a pincushion after being beatten and stabbed by a mob of 8 year olds would do wonders for this problem.

Psychopaths want to copycat the successful and invulnderable dealer of death, not to copycat getting torn up by a buch of kids.

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Yimmy 4/20/2007 5:30:45 PM

Unfortunately most people seem to have a "Why me?" mentality.

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RockyMTNClimber Too True 4/20/2007 7:13:57 PM

Unfortunately most people seem to have a "Why me?" mentality.

Our societies send a wierd set of messages. We teach our kids not to fight- ever - in school, then send them home to a video game that slaughters thousands in an afternoon. Killing on screen is okay, but defending your life is a no-no?

How many of our politicians around the world want us to not fight back! No guns allowed on campus. The irony is that if the guy had tried that in a Virginia outlet mall he would have been riddled to pieces by the soccer moms doing their shopping (Virginia is a shall issue state for concealed carry, but for some insane reason they are not allowed on campus). No doubt the bad guy knew that.

This all sets aside what the school knew about this monster leading up to the attack. Don't get me started with that....

We need to teach people to fight. I would rather my kids went down swinging rather than stood there and took it without any resistance. If they had fought, more of them would have survived. Possibly all.

Check Six

Rocky

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andyf or 4/20/2007 10:56:58 PM

if he hadnt had a pair of guns in the first place ?

1/3 of people at some time go mental

obviously with him it was the 1/3 with his brain in

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Herald1234 Illogic 4/20/2007 11:05:40 PM

if he hadnt had a pair of guns in the first place ?

1/3 of people at some time go mental

obviously with him it was the 1/3 with his brain in

Mohammed Atta, Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kozcynski. Its not the tool; its the wielder. When will people understand that crazy does not equal stupid, and that weapons/tools don't work until the man acts?

You don't start with the gun. You start with the man.

Herald

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RockyMTNClimber Terrorism Against America 4/21/2007 11:03:56 AM

Largest Terror crime? 3 planes hijacked with pocket knives and box cutters.

Second Largest Terror Crime? Morrow building blown up with about a ton of fertilizer & couple hundred gallons of diesel.

Watch out for the box cutters.

Check Six

Rocky

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Jeff_F_F 4/21/2007 11:36:25 AM

The saddest thing that I've ever heard was that the wife of a moderately significant government official was onboard the plane that was flown into the Pentagon. Treasury Secratary or some such. Not the chairman of the JCS, but still. She called her husband and they talked. The planes had already been flown into the WTC and they knew with absolute certainty that she was going to die.

But they did nothing. I'm sorry to be insensitive, but that's horrible. I don't blame her, or him. I blame those who have so weakened us that even national leaders faced with the clearest and most unambiguous scenarios don't recognize what is right.

If you have the coice of dying like a dog, or going down fighting, you go down fighting.

Teaching children to fight back at school isn't just about school shootings. It is teaching them that the world is sometimes a terrible place, and that we are sometimes called upon to make terrible choices. In Springfield OR, the shooter was stopped by a wrestler who was also trained about guns, so he knew what they do and how they do it, and understood that he had a better chance rushing the kid than waiting to be shot. He got shot, but he lived. Plenty of others just died like dogs because society hadn't seen fit to prepare them.

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RockyMTNClimber "Let's Roll" 4/21/2007 11:46:45 AM

If you have the coice of dying like a dog, or going down fighting, you go down fighting.

The folks on flight 93 did organize and attempt to take the plane back. That is why that aircraft was crashed into the Pennsylvania farm field. They got it right there and it saved lives. No doubt about it. They are heros and God Bless them for what they did.

What I am talking about is that there was a window of time where the terrorists did not quite have control of the plane. When they have annouced their plot and everyone is reacting. We need to teach people in our society that your reaction should be an instant counter attack, no hesitation. I think that it is possible to teach that early and often. Let the bastards hijack someone else's plane but the passengers and crew of a US flag carrier will fight you to the end. If they had done that Flight 93 might have landed safely. No fault of the passengers and crew of Flight 93. That just was not being considered at the time. It has to now.

Teach response not submission.

Check Six

Rocky

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displacedjim 4/22/2007 8:36:38 AM

The other problem is that all college campuses forbid their students carrying guns. It should at least be permitted with a valid concealed carry permit.

I certainly agree with that. Of course most college students would not be able to obtain one, since federal law prohibits ownership or possession of a handgun or even just handgun ammunition by anyone under 21 years old.

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