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Subject: SCAR production contract awarded 11/5/2007
Old Grunt    11/6/2007 9:17:27 AM
UNITED STATES SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND FN Herstal of Herstal, Belgium, was awarded a 10-year indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity contract for the development and production of the Special Combat Assault Rifle in support of U.S. Special Operations Command procurement division in November 2004. There have been eleven delivery orders awarded to date for the procurement of Initial Operational Test and Evaluation and Low Rate Initial Production requirements totaling $11,134,096. The production phase of this contract is anticipated to begin in March 2008. The work will be performed primarily in Herstal, and is expected to be completed by 2014. The contract number is H92222-05-D-0001.
 
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Herald1234    Has the rifle been weapon proofed in the field?   11/6/2007 10:15:47 AM
Herald
 
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Horsesoldier       11/6/2007 3:15:08 PM

Herald


I believe so, yes.
 
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Herald1234    Good.   11/6/2007 4:42:04 PM
Hopefully this will lead the way away from another H&K XM-8 debacle and points us in the right direction at last.
 
Herald 
 
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Nichevo    Sigh   11/6/2007 8:10:25 PM
Let me just say this about that...

It's ugly...and it's foreign.

Now ugly doesn't matter, and is in the eye of the beholder anyway.  Perhaps the humpback will grow on me.  But as for foreign...

no offense to the wonderful people at FN, but why can't the US do indigenous firearms development anymore?  Who was there after Gene Stoner?  Yes, we all worship at the shrine of John Moses Browning but is it POSSIBLE that something new might have come along in a century?
 
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Herald1234       11/6/2007 8:29:02 PM

Let me just say this about that...

It's ugly...and it's foreign.

Now ugly doesn't matter, and is in the eye of the beholder anyway.  Perhaps the humpback will grow on me.  But as for foreign...

no offense to the wonderful people at FN, but why can't the US do indigenous firearms development anymore?  Who was there after Gene Stoner?  Yes, we all worship at the shrine of John Moses Browning but is it POSSIBLE that something new might have come along in a century?
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as70-e.htm

"http://world.guns.ru/assault/as70-e.htm"

[quoting]

Late in 2004 US SOCOM announced, that the winner for the initial SCAR contracts is the FN USA, an US-based subsidiary of the famous Belgian company Fabrique Nationale Herstal. prototype rifles were manufactured by FN Manufacturing Inc, US-based subsidiary to FN Herstal; This company will also handle series production of rifles. Starting mid-2005, first SCAR rifles went to end users in US Special Operation Forces. Since US SOCOM uses Navy-type "mark" designations, SCAR rifles were officially designated as Rifle Mark 16 (SCAR-L / Light) and Rifle Mark 17 (SCAR-H / Heavy). It is believed that Mk.16 and Mk.17 rifles will gradually replace most rifle systems now in service with US SOCOM forces, such as M4 carbines, M16 rifles, M14 rifles and Mk. 25 sniper rifles.

As it turned out, FN SCAR rifles are not based on any previous weapons but designed from the scratch. In all variants FN SCAR rifles feature gas operated, short stroke piston action with rotating bolt locking. Bolt system appears to be somewhat similar to that of FN Minimi / M249 SAW machine gun. This system apparently is less sensitive to fine sand, dust and any other fouling inside the receiver, than any system with M16-type multi-lug bolt and plunger-type ejector. 

US engineers designed and built it to SOCOM specs.  That is the US subsidiary.

And yes they did use John Moses Browning. There is a bit of BAR in SCAR.

Herald

 
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Rasputin    So who will get the re-equipped first?   11/7/2007 4:53:31 AM
Like it or not, here they come.

So who are going to get the new rifles? U.S. Special Operations Command ?  All special forces troops only?

And will they be in time to reach Iraq  and  Afganistan before the end of the year?


 
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Cato1    A coupla questions   11/15/2007 7:16:03 PM
   First, I believe that this will be a superlative weapon system. I am simply wondering what the SCAR brings to the fight that the current M-4/MK.12 combo does not? I understand that bbl. modularity is important, but wouldn't it be more cost effective to procure alternative uppers for the M-4? Would something like the LM&T Monolithic Rail Platform satisfy requisite bbl. change capability? It would also maintain the current manual of arms and superb ergonomic layout of the AR style platform (weather or not LM&T has the capability to produce weapons on that scale, while maintaining its lucrative civillian sales is another question entierly). I mean, the SCAR is not breaking any new ground. It is still using brass cased ammo, out of a conventional (although incrementaly more reliable) operating system. Lastly, would SGT Hulka be willing to crash gates into the former Czechoslovakia with this weapon?
Thanks,
Cato
 
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Horsesoldier       11/15/2007 7:58:44 PM

   First, I believe that this will be a superlative weapon system. I am simply wondering what the SCAR brings to the fight that the current M-4/MK.12 combo does not? I understand that bbl. modularity is important, but wouldn't it be more cost effective to procure alternative uppers for the M-4? Would something like the LM&T Monolithic Rail Platform satisfy requisite bbl. change capability? It would also maintain the current manual of arms and superb ergonomic layout of the AR style platform (weather or not LM&T has the capability to produce weapons on that scale, while maintaining its lucrative civillian sales is another question entierly).

The story appears to be at least in part driven by the fact that the M16 and M4 are owned, at the big picture logistics level, by agencies besides SOCOM, which has posed some problems with maintenance (SOF versus conventional wear and tear, etc.).  Why that was easier to fix with an entire new rifle instead of some streamlining of the bureaucracy is a bit above my pay grade.
 
The LMT MRP is an excellent bit of kit (bought one a while back) and would think it does what they want SCAR to do (even has a drop in gas piston option in the works, apparently), except for the inventory management/control angle. 
 
SCAR does make some minor improvements on the M4 ergonomics, besides the folding/collapsing stock.  Charging handle and selector switch are supposed to be better.  With a gas piston it will also run cleaner with a suppressor fitted (M16/M4 reliability is much higher than the internet claims, but put a suppressor on and the direct gas system gets real filthy real fast).  There should also be no issues with running very short (12" and below) barrel lengths on it, which can be an issue with the M4 (though I'd note the people making short barrel uppers for government contracts seem to have gotten all the kinks worked out, so it's more a hypothetical than a real problem).
 
I still haven't gotten my hands on one yet.  We were supposed to be getting them and had the issue date pushed back twice.  Going by the contract and some wild guessing I'd say it will be late '08 before I can offer any first hand impressions, barring some lucky developments.
 
FN is supposed to be working up a version for civilian sales as well, though I imagine it will be at least a couple years before those hit the shelves (political climate permitting) due to the SOCOM contract.

 
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