Which is the best 9mm pistol?

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Subject: Which is the best 9mm pistol?
Question 11/30/2003 9:32:27 AM

By best,i mean grip,accuracy,reloading function,safety,recoil,etc.Ive heard a lot about the SIG,nice and easy to use.Then theres the glock...17 i think....and the berretta.And probably a lot more.Which do you think is the best?

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Daktown 5/8/2007 1:52:51 PM

I think everyone has their own preference as to what is the best 9mm pistol around. Here is a new forum for 9mm's http://www.nineguns.com/ If I were you I would also go to the gun range and try out as many pistols as you can to see what works best for you.

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Daktown 5/8/2007 1:54:31 PM

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Ispose Best 9mm 5/9/2007 9:44:09 AM

I'm extremely old fashioned...the best 9mm is a Remington M1875 chambered in .45 Long Colt with 250 gr round nosed bullets. I still hunt with a 45.70 so don't try talking that new fangled high velocity BS to me.

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Newton 5/31/2007 1:00:24 PM

I'm currently very impressed by the full size Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm. Very well made, great trigger, adjustable backstraps, low price and 17 round magazines (with 2 more mags free if you buy one from June 1st onwards)

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benellim4 6/1/2007 7:35:59 AM

Well, there is both good information in this thread and a whole lot of bad.

First of all, most Navy shipboard personnel have to qualify with a sidearm twice a year. You're average infantryman isn't even issued a sidearm. MPs, SPs and the like have much more experience than either.

Second, there is no such thing as "knock down power." Bullets do their damage by crushing tissue, hopefully vital tissue. Obviously, a larger diameter bullet gives you an advantage, but how much of one is open for debate. Shot placement, above all else, is the determining factor when it comes to service pistols.

On that same train of thought, the farther the bullet penetrates the better off you are. It is better for the bad guy to be bleeding from two holes rather than one. Which means, the "energy transfer" mantra is nothing but crap. I have yet to see a wound ballistician with an MD after his name advocate the "energy transfer" theory.

So what is the best 9mm?
The HK P7 series? Not if you're going to fire more than 10 or 15 rounds. Its underside heats up fast. Not to mention some users have problems with the squeeze cocker.

The Browning Hi Power? Not unless it is heavily customized. It was a good design in the 30s, but technology has advanced. It doesn't break down for cleaning as easily as modern designs, the hammer bite hurts some shooters, and the sights as originally designed suck by modern standards. Still with a few modifications it is a respectable pistol. Quite impressive for a design that is 70 years old.

The Glock? Sure has a reputation for reliability. But for an issue weapon it has quite a number of negligent discharges. You shouldn't need a manual safety, but some morons apparently do. It also has a grip angle that you either love or hate.

The M9? It has had its share of problems including breakages and magazine problems. Mostly because a plastic follower and sand don't mix.

The Sig/M11? It is possibly the most comfortable pistol I've shot, but the decocker is located in the most inane position, and it has had its share of breakages too.

The H&K USP? It's a fine pistol, but it is often accused of being top heavy and of having ergonomics like a brick.

The Sigma? This Glock knockoff has a good grip angle, but has a horrible trigger.

The new M&P? Good little gun with some teething problems. Adjustable grip angle is good. It's long term durability is still a question.

There is not "best" pistol. They are only as suitable as the individual firing it determines it to be.

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cougar 6/8/2007 8:58:24 PM

The best? Very subjective, but here's the questions I ask myself first:

(1) Do I know what caliber I want? (you already know this, good)

(2) Revolver or Semi-Auto?

(3) Do I want Single Action or Double Action, or a handgun that can do both?

(4) Do I want a hammer, hammerless, or a bobbed hammer?

(5) Do I want a thick-handle high capacity pistol, or a thin-handled with lower capacity?

(6) Do I need rugged sights, or adjustable sights for accuracy or competition shooting? Night sights?

(7) Do I want an all-metal pistol, or will a polymer frame (read lighter and less expensive) pistol work?

If lessening recoil is important, you will probably want an all-metal handgun

(8) Manual Safety, or some other nifty safing mechanism? There's all kinds of safety features these days...

from button-within-trigger, to backstrap safety, etc..

(9) All the above questions should get me to down to a few choices, then comes aesthetics.. how does it look?

A High-Point might meet every criteria spelled out above, but God it's UGLY. I wouldn't be caught dead with one.

(10) Finally, when you've trimmed your choice down to a very few, how does it feel? If it doesn't fit your hand, doesn't point well, and/or doesn't shoot well for you, then it's probably the wrong choice.

#10 is the hardest, b/c you can't do that research on-line. You MUST go to your local gun store, or a gun show, and a range. Go to the gun show first. I prefer gun shows because the pistols aren't in glass display cases and

you can pick them up and see how they feel. Maybe this gets you down to 2 choices, next is to try to find a range where you can rent one or both of these pistols and shoot them. You may need to go to different ranges. But if you're like most of us, you already have trimmed your choices down, and you just buy one, hoping you've made the right choice without actually firing it first. Fortunately, there's no rule that you can't sell it if it doesn't work for you. But do the other steps first, seriuosly consider all those questions, and you should be able to get your choice down to a couple.

Personally, I own a nickel-plated Browning Hi Power in 9mm, and two HK USP's, one in 9mm and one in .40S&W.

With compensator and extended match barrels, I can easily turn my HK's into USP Match pistols.... look out Angelina Jolie. So in essence, with my two HK's I really have 4 pistols, depends on how I set them up.

If the HK USP doesn't fit your hand, get the compact version. The HK USP .45 frame is too big for my hand, but the 9mm and .40 have the same size frame and I can use my compensator on either, same thing with the jet funnel.

I've shot all kinds of ammo, incl several kinds of cheap gun show re-loaded ammo and I've never had a jam with my HK's yet.... knock wood.

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cougar 6/8/2007 9:46:46 PM

I didn't really answer the question b/c it's so subjective. Putting that aside, I'm a former Army Ordnance officer who was commisioned right after the switch to the Beretta 9mm, so I've never shot a 1911 (I know, I know, sacrilege).

But all the old weaponeers, armorers, and gunsmiths I've spoken to swear by the 1911, and they also have high praise for the Browning Hi Power. Both are highly customizable. That may be part of their charm. The 1911, more than any other pistol, has so many clones, choices, variations and options available, including caliber, single or double action, thick-grip high capacity of thin grip regular capacity, that you should be able to find something you like in a 1911. For me, there's just too may 1911's to choose from. Overkill?

I've almost convinced myself that I need to own at least one example of both the 1911 and the Browning Hi Power just so I have some basis for comparison. They are without doubt the "old" standard by which all new pistols are compared.

General Tommy Franks swears by the GI-issue Beretta, keeps one on the bookshelf in his office (for disgruntled visitors?) But I'll bet he's ever been in a foxhole with one and had it full of sand and grit, or had a slide come off and hit him in the face (Beretta fixed that problem).

The Geneva Convention limits us to the FMJ round. But the 9mm FMJ round simply doesn't do a good job of getting through car doors and windshields, and even when you hit a Muslimofacist squarely and unprotected, the 9mm still doesn't do a good job of stopping him, especially if he's full of adrenalin or doped up on something else.

For practice and target shooting, however, the 9mm round is IDEAL. Low recoil, cheap, and you can have high capacity as well.

My CHL instructor, who is a 30-year Marine veteran and who taught marksmanship to many generations of Marines, is a huge SIG man. That being said, he's recently fallen in love with his Beretta Px4 Storm and gushes about it.

Me, I like my HK USPs, my next purchase will probably be a compact version. Is it top-heavy? Nah, my 9mm with jet-funnel holds 18 in the mag and one in the chamber. 19 rds gives it a nice heft. My .40S&W version holds 16 + 1 with jet funnel. Is it blocky? Maybe, but not much more than any other blocky polymer pistol out there. It tears down easy, could do it with my eyes closed. Don't like the extra recoil of a .40? Then get American Ammo 105-grain frangible rounds for practice, very low recoil, but not the cheapest at $16.97 /50 rds. If you have the money, buy Corbon subsonic Match ammo, expensive but accurate and low recoil.

One day I will own a 1911, I just can't decide which one. I really like the Ed Brown Executive carry 1911, but it runs b/t $2200 - $2700. Ouch!

Perhaps I should add a # 11 to the above list: (11) Know how much you can spend before you decide.

Don't know if this image will attach, but here's the 10 pistols in .45 ACP that the U.S. military was considering to replace the Beretta 9mm

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cougar 6/9/2007 12:22:29 AM

Wish I could edit my previous post. Here's a couple additions to my list of considerations:

(10a) Can I reach the mag release with my regular shooting grip? Or do I have to change my grip to reach it?

along this line,

(8a) Can I reach the safety with a normal grip? This is of course provided it has a safety.

I've been trying to think of some downsides of the HK USP, one that a Tactical Team guy told me was that when he shot with his gloves on he'd accidently bump the slide catch and his slide was locking back all the time, so he got rid of his HK USP. It's never happened to me though.

I've also heard that the decocker/safety can get rough-feeling after lots of shooting. Well, this is just a lack of maintenance. If you clean your handgun at all, and put a tiny dab of gun grease on the decocker werks once the slide is off, this should never be a problem.

I'll admit due to its size the HK USP does not make a good concealed carry, but that wasn't one of the considerations listed. The Hi Power is thin, but heavy. Same with the all-metal CZ's and SIG's. If you like hammerless, the Kahr polymer in 9mm and .40S&W is a good option for concealed carry, but I've never shot one so can't critique them firsthand. Notice the .45 ACP options the U.S. Military is considering above. You see polymer, don't you? If Beretta really won the last contract b/c it came in $1 cheaper (or a penny cheaper) than the next competitor, and that won it the contract, I don't think there's any way a quality all-metal pistol will be able to under-bid a polymer pistol, even if its a CZ made in the Czech republic.

Someone asked what we load into our Browning Hi Powers. I don't hv access to +P+ ammo and even if I did would only use it for self-defense, not at the range. To be honest, I've not shot my 1981 Hi Power with +P ammo either. Just standard 115-grain or 124-grain FMJ and JHP. Never a glitch, and quite accurate, despite the fixed sights. But the HK USPs will shoot bulked-up ammo just fine. Guess you'd have to ask someone who regularly shoots +P+ in their Hi Power.... but I'd also ask this person, "Why?" I've shot all kinds of reloads, never had a jam in my HKs.

I used to dispise "plastic" pistols, having shot revolvers as a kid, the Beretta 92 in the Army, and having owned 3 x Colt SAA revolvers. My first semi-auto purchase was the Browning Hi Power I already mentioned. It took me over a decade to come around to even considering a "polymer" pistol. Back in the early 90's I used to feel sorry for all those slobs who owned Glocks; I thought they couldn't afford a "real" all-metal pistol. But now that I shoot a plastic pistol almost exclusively, I have to say I was wrong. They are rugged, accurate, easy to tear down, and admit it, cheap-er. They're not all cheap, but on the whole they are cheaper than all-metal. I have to think that's a prime consideration of local police departments... plastic is cheaper...

But I have to ask, if you're in law enforcement and given the choice of carry, would you still carry a plastic pistol, if someone else were paying the bill for you?

I wonder if this plastic craze is really the love of plastic, or simply the cheaper cost? Cheap sells. Still, polymer gives you more options from an industrial design viewpoint as well. But is there anything as beautiful looking or as perfectly melded to the human grip as a nicely blued 1911 or color case hardened Colt Single Action Army? Not IMHO.

My Tactical Team friend says if he was given the choice, the Para Ordnance 1911 is available in 9mm, .40S&W and .45 ACP. It's also available in DAO. High capacity, or regular. (meaning thick or thin grip). If you can stand its weight, it would be a nice choice to have, and would be his.

Here's a couple examples of all-metal pistols, a bit on the pricey side compared to plastic...

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BasinBictory 6/10/2007 12:52:29 PM

I have shot 9mm in the following guns:

Beretta 92

Glock 19

Glock 17

HK USP

CZ-75.

Of these five, the one that felt the most comfortable and shootable (to me) was the CZ-75. Of course, I'm biased because that was the first 9mm I ever owned or shot, and so I used it as a benchmark. I have yet to see it malfunction as far as FTF or FTE.

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madpsi 1/12/2008 3:57:01 PM

there is no such thing as the "best" 9mm pistol. the "best" is a choice ... and that choice is your own decision. from my experience living in the U.S. and abroad (El Salvador, Jamaica) and involvement in two shooting incidents with shots coming back at me in both occasions, i must say reliability and "ease of use under stress" determines the best. i was fortunate to have my Glock G19 with me. i scored hits in one of the two incidents. "range" shooting and "real" shooting is TWO different things. some have stated "weapon retention" ... "stopping power" ... "intimidation factor b/c someone can see the gun at night" ... all practically inconsequential in my opinion. if u can't retain your weapon, you should not carry to begin with. if you are concerned solely about "stopping power", the other guy/gal can always have more firepower than you. If you are concerned by intimidation, "talk is cheap" in real shootings. get yourself a Glock ... and leave that "range talk" at the range.

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