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Subject: Which is the best 9mm pistol?
Question    11/30/2003 9:32:27 AM
By best,i mean grip,accuracy,reloading function,safety,recoil,etc.Ive heard a lot about the SIG,nice and easy to use.Then theres the glock...17 i think....and the berretta.And probably a lot more.Which do you think is the best?
 
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towgunner1960    RE:Which is the best 9mm pistol?   4/29/2004 12:14:39 AM
They don't call Glocks fantastic plastic for nothing. All of the tests and articles I have read and based on my personal observations, place the Glock consistantly at or near the top of the scrap heap. This is not based on media hype. The Glock is that good. When they first came out I hated the trigger, ( I still do). The gun felt funny. But when you shoot it and it just keeps going bang, it grows on you. The striker spring is never under pressure unless you pull the trigger. It is as safe as any revolver. Don't pull the trigger and it won't go off. If you have a spare one, throw it as far as you can across the parking lot, run over it with a car, bury it in mud, sand, freeze it, squeeze it. Shake off the mud and it still goes bang. Try that with some other pistols. The Glock rates up there with the very best pistols of all times..
 
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ChdNorm    Towgunner   4/29/2004 12:59:00 AM
I don't disagree with you really. I have a feeling the citizens wouldn't sleep so snugly if they knew just how inept and unskilled some of those protecting and serving them actually are. I think the Glock makes a good baseline for those that aren't interested or won't dedicate the time to improving their skills in order to take advantage of better designs for specific applications. There are some officers I barely trust with a streamlight, no less a co cked and locked Government model. What's the old saying ... You couldn't get a group of cops in on their off time, even if it involved picking up $100 bills at the range? I wasn't really aiming my statement at those officers that are enthusiasmly challenged. Instead, at those that are willing to train on sidearms that offer features that, while they might be a hinderance to the ill trained, can be huge advantages to those officers which are dedicated to performing at a higher level. Features like magazine disconnects and manually operated safeties do have their advantages. I like the kill button approach. I carried a 4506 for a while and found in full speed training scenarios that poppin a cap wasn't always an option. I came up with this ... mag release, knee, let go, step back, empty 642! Yeah, I know what you're thinking. Good thing it was never court tested huh? They're all equally vulnerable when drawn to a snatch. Granted an SS-III does give you better protection when holstered. But I just personally hate them. The officers that won't take the time to master their sidearm, rarely take the time to master the SS-III draw. I would hazard a guess that those officers fumble their draw at least 3 out of 10 attempts. Personally, I always carry a Ted Blocker SW100. I wont argue that a low slung level 1 swivel holster isn't just asking for someone to make a grab one of these days, but like you mentioned. Situational awareness comes into play in making sure they never get close to it to begin with. I do like an on safe pistol in a level 1 though. I figure it evens things up as far as retention with a level III while holstered. If I ran things (which in all likelihood will never happen) every recruit would start with a 686 and work their way up from there. After they're off probation they can carry anything they can master at 100%. That keeps the ill trained from walking around co cked and locked, as well as providing the incentive to hit the range if they want something they aren't ashamed to be seen in the squad room with. The same approach could be taken with anyone that is interested in getting a CCW or even have one lay in the nightstand drawer.
 
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Shooter    RE:Which is the best 9mm pistol?   1/12/2005 12:34:51 AM
ANY OF THEM THAT WILL FIRE THE .45 ACP ROUND!
 
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Jungle-Man    RE:Which is the best 9mm pistol?   1/12/2005 6:38:30 PM
I would go for the MP-443 "Grach", it is very reliable and accurate, and designed to fire even the hottest loaded 9mm ammo (such as the russian 7N21 armor piercing) without problems. If you have something even more powerfull in mind and dont mind not being able to fire normal 9x19mm then go for the Vector SR-1, it fires the russian 9x21mm sp-10 bullet that is capable of penetrating 30 layers of Kevlar plus up to 2.8mm titanium plate at 100 meters. The gun itself is also pretty accurate and reliable but has some ergonomics issues.
 
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ambush    RE:Which is the best 9mm pistol?   1/12/2005 6:52:03 PM
9mm? Why bother even carrying a pistol then?
 
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Jungle-Man    RE:Which is the best 9mm pistol?   1/12/2005 6:58:16 PM
Because it has higher velocity and thus greater range than a .45, is cheaper and easier to shoot. But personally I would prefer the 9x21mm to the regular 9x19mm, or even better I would like a 10mm pistol, but those are very rare.
 
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ambush    RE:Which is the best 9mm pistol?   1/12/2005 8:00:56 PM
Which of course explains why the Special Ops types, and majority of US law enforcement that have experience with the 9mm have switched to .40 or .45. For my money 9mm was nothing more than a fad in the US. WHen you look at organizations like the FBI that switched to 9mm they quickly changed to their own version of the 10mm/.40cal. The Marine Corps is upgrading and reissuing its .45 to its Special Ops types. I read that in the 1990s 75% of Florida law enforcement that was involved in shootouts with 9mms changed over to .45
 
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Jungle-Man    RE:Which is the best 9mm pistol?   1/12/2005 9:17:47 PM
the .40 is closer in its ballistic properties to the 9mm than to the .45 And special forces use the .45 for its SHORT-DISTANCE stopping power and because of it's lower velocity its easier to silence. Since the .45 gets most of its power from its weight rather than its speed, the lowering of velosity to sub-sonic doesn't affect the power as much as it does the 9mm. And personally for short distance I would indeed prefer the .45 but for intermidiate range or target shooting I would take a 9mm. And about the 10mm auto, I already said that I would prefer that one over both the .45 and the 9mm.
 
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xyz    RE:Which is the best 9mm pistol?   1/13/2005 12:51:35 PM
Beretta 92fs and nothing else, italian's rules!!!!!!!
 
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Gene6696    RE:Which is the best 9mm pistol?   1/15/2005 5:22:22 AM
I've seen a few posts about the magazine disconnect safety on the S&W pistols. Th fallacy of being able to deactivate the pistol in a struggle for retention will get you killed. One, you are training yourself to give up your weapon. NEVER do this! Two, the slightest amount of pressure against the trigger of an S&W pistol will defeat the mag disconnect, allowing the one chambered round to be fired, even with the magazine separated from the weapon. Try this, in a safe environment, with dummy rounds. As far as Glocks go, my only beef is the grip is not the most comfortable, and it can get a bit slippery. I have dealt with this by using the grip decals available, and, my favorite, using the Ranger rubber bands on the grip. It does not add much to the size, and improves the grip. Stay away from the slip on grips. And for the record, the M92/M9 Beretta is trash. I/m no expert, but with over 20 years of military service (9 active, 11 reserve) in Marines, Army infantry, AF SP, and 14 as a civilian Police Officer, in 2 agencies, one very small, one very large, still current, with 7 years as a police firearms instructor/armorer, and duties at the Basic Academy, I have just a bit of experience to fall back on.
 
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