If its possible to get the Ukraine in without starting a new Cold War (though it will add to the Russian feeling of beeing surrounded) that its definately beneficial for Nato. In the long-term, they will also get into EU sooner or later if they continue their pro-western course. 

 

PS: On a personal note, I was really positively surprised when the Ukraine threatened to close Sewastopol if the Russians would continue the advance on Tiflis. 

In my opinion it would have to be no. 

 

In reality it can change depending on what NATO developes into. I have seen a discussion between military experts on TV, where the experts were not ruling out eventually extending some form of NATO membership to China. The experts so to speak did not think this would be at all such a crazy idea. (One expert has served in NATO functions)

 

If such stuff is not ruled out then in my opinion all bets are off! Of course I may at that time not agree to what NATO has developed into.

 

 

Are you for or against including the Ukraine in Europe?

Do we really have to push the Russians up against the wall any more?

 

If we continue to demonize Russia, she shall become a demon. I thought we learnt this lesson the hard way after WWI.

 

Why is NATO still in existence anyway? The Cold War is over.... NATO expansion, missle shields and Caucaus client states have convinced the Russians that the Cold War never ended in the eyes of the West and I'd have to agree with them.

"Why is NATO still in existence anyway?"

 

 

Afghanistan & Georgia are recent examples of why NATO is still relevant.

I'd argue that the states best qualified to cast a meaningful opinion about the russians are the ex warsaw pact group - so far the majority want nothing to do with the russians - and are vehement in staying independent.

 

the russians have just demonstrated to Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Estonia, Georgia et al that  she's a threat.

 

you can't blame the west for the failings of a country that suffers from an inferiority and persecution complex of galactic proportions.

 

Putin absolutely detests the decline of the soviet union - for him russia is still a super power and he's going to make sure that she's front and centre.

 

the best thing for europe is to fast track alternative energy and take away the damocles sword of energy that Putin waves across their heads.

 

better that than to let the russians roll over any baltic state that happens to make them nervous. (and there are a few examples if people have selective short memories, hungary, czechoslovakia, poland and now georgia)