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Subject: Turkey vs. Greece who better?
Irish Emo dudes    1/4/2007 7:32:39 PM
Greece spends 7 billion on their military and has american weapondry turkey spends 12 billion and also has american weapondry both used f-16's but turkey has ordered 100 f-35's not sure what greece is getting i think eurofighters...whose better militarily and who would win in a war (two different questions) and another thing i would like to know who is better trained?
 
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french stratege       5/24/2009 7:11:03 PM
Another time Herald, you did a mistake
 
Greece never used R530 of its Mirage F1, which is the old MIII generation missile that Australian used on its MIII which did not work so well (like early sixties Sparrow)..
Greece used the 1979 Super 530 F on it Mirage F1 which was a missile similar to AIM 7 F Sparrow but much faster  (mach 5+) and with more potential energy (but heavier than Sparrow).
 
 
 
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Herald12345       5/24/2009 7:49:39 PM

Another time Herald, you did a mistake

 

Greece never used R530 of its Mirage F1, which is the old MIII generation missile that Australian used on its MIII which did not work so well (like early sixties Sparrow)..

Greece used the 1979 Super 530 F on it Mirage F1 which was a missile similar to AIM 7 F Sparrow but much faster  (mach 5+) and with more potential energy (but heavier than Sparrow).

 

 

Nice try, but you still bolo. Cyprus crisis was when 1974? The F1CG was introduced to Greece's HAF in 1974. Super 530 was introduced in 1979-80 or thereabouts  after the Jordanians, and AdA said  they needed a FIGHTER killer: not a FALCON clone. The HAF used the MATRA 530 prior to that along with SIDEWINDER because they needed a bomber killer and then a fighter dogfight missile. They wouldn't have wired the F1CG immediuately for Sidewinder: if they had a viable CHOICE.
And that, amateur, is what is called a HERALD TRAP.
 
 
 

Who the HELL do you think you are dealing with?

Herald
 
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Godofgamblers       5/27/2009 11:35:20 PM











Yes, that's what i meant. But the party on the defensive side will have a definite advantage and if the war is drawn out, as high tech weapons are expended through attrition, the side with larger manpower reserves would have the advantage for sure.


 


 

True but consider real strategic situation

Greece has air superiority in a battle of attrition as I demonstrated

Theatre is mainly a naval theater except from the narrow montaneous land stripe which separate Greece from Turkey.

If Greece retains 100 aircraft vs zero after a total air battle of attrition, Greece win.Period.

Air superiority of Greece is garanteed by Europe and USA (who show themselves more neutrals).

Turkey can not expect to win a war since its supplies of weapon is very low and US dependant

Greece has a much bigger stock allowing it to wage a several week war before exhausting its ammunitions.Even with a US embargo.

The reality is that Greece is allowed to do a limited agression on Turkey while Turkey can not.

 

 


Your points are well taken, but remember that political alliances can change like the wind. Or more precisely, although you think you have the backing of a country, once the bullets start flying, it may turn out that you don't. (remember how during the Falklands war, the support of the US was divided between Argentina and the UK.... probably much to the consternation of the UK!)
 
I agree with you that politics would be the wild card in any confrontation. Imagine how things would change if Bulgaria threw its support behind Turkey 100%.... or if the EU censured Turkey and supported Greece, etc etc.
 
It's like a Rubics Cube.... any number of combinations is possible.

 
 
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Geezer       5/30/2009 6:56:57 AM
The F-1CG were not introduced in 1974. The first 2 F-1CGs (numbered 101 and 102) arrived in Tanagra airport in 05/08/1975. Last aircraft (No. 140) was delivered in 03/04/1978.


The Matra Super 530D were never used in F-1CG, they were bought as a compementary to the Matra Magic 2 for the M2000 in the early 80s.
 
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FEARLESS TURKS    lol?   6/4/2009 3:22:06 PM
which country did obama first visted when he became president????? TURKEY!
why? because Turkey and America has the best relations with the U.S after israil and the U.K.
why didnt they do anything when Turkey attacked cypres and took 40% of the island and the fact is TURKEY IS MUCH SUPRIOR THAN GREECE AND AMERICA BACK TURKEY MORE THAN GREECE!
 
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FEARLESS TURKS    lol?   6/4/2009 3:22:10 PM
which country did obama first visted when he became president????? TURKEY!
why? because Turkey and America has the best relations with the U.S after israil and the U.K.
why didnt they do anything when Turkey attacked cypres and took 40% of the island and the fact is TURKEY IS MUCH SUPRIOR THAN GREECE AND AMERICA BACK TURKEY MORE THAN GREECE!
 
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FEARLESS TURKS    CLEVER BUT NOT THAT MUCH!   6/4/2009 3:32:05 PM
AHHHHH....... we thought of that we have IAI harpy. This system is con=sidred as one of the most advanced anti-rader and anti-aircraft UAV. okay let me get to the point, everytime harpy sees a enemy rader or anti-aicraft (like the s-300,s-400,patriot, etc ect) it basicly dives in to the rader or the AA and destroys them! This UAV normaly controls on its own but if needed it can be controled from a base.
 
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FEARLESS TURKS    CLEVER BUT NOT THAT MUCH!   6/4/2009 3:32:12 PM
AHHHHH....... we thought of that we have IAI harpy. This system is considred as one of the most advanced anti-rader and anti-aircraft UAV. okay let me get to the point, everytime harpy sees a enemy rader or anti-aicraft (like the s-300,s-400,patriot, etc ect) it basicly dives in to the rader or the AA and destroys them! This UAV normaly controls on its own but if needed it can be controled from a base.
 
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Monkeysee099    Never Lost?   6/4/2009 8:11:41 PM
Historically both nations, or areas, have been conquered, and conqured quickly.
 
Macedonia wasn't really part of Greece until Phillip II (?) took it over and did so quickly.  His son Alexander wacked the Anatolian penninsula (Turkey) rather quickly on his way to decimating the Persian Empire.
 
During the Hellenic Period, when the Generals of the Alexander created their own empires, Greece, especially the Peloponesus and associated islands were really just pawns and playthings in the wars that followed.
 
During the Second Punic War, Greece decided to intercede on Carthage's behalf and Rome smote them.  In fact, and I'm sure I'll get corrected by Herald, I'm pretty sure Rome smited those crazy Greeks twice or more and all times pretty easily.  Rome also owned the Anatolian Peninsula pretty nicely.  Not sure where the Parthians came from though, they were a little tough on the Romans.
 
Now as for a present day Greek vs. Turkey:  Having been to both places a couple of times and seeing the local areas I would have to say that while land might be taken on either side, the loss vs. gain would be about equal.
 
Many people have brought up how mobility is a major player in the game and geography.  Non-mechanized mobility is about the only way you could take Greece.  Airlift and by foot.  That means smaller scale battles, nothing decisive which makes a stalemate all the more likely and Greeks fighting on their own terrain would win.  Turkey, while mountainous in parts also has a lot more flat land which mechanized mobility can work on.  Those battles would be larger scale and more decisive, likely going to the Turks since no one would have true air superiority, the Turks air advantage would be because of reduced flight time (increased turn around time hence), increased weapon load (they would need less fuel). 
 
No winner.
 
Personally both countries and people are wonderful and a joy to meet and talk to.  The foods, architecture etc are awesome.  I know the EU doesn't consider Turkey part of Europe but frankly, they're a bunch of damn fools.  The best way to ensure peace in the region is a certain amount of inclusivity not Euro-centric elitism.  War betwen them would be a damn shame and this thread was terrible.
 
 
 
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cwDeici       6/5/2009 3:49:02 AM

which country did obama first visted when he became president????? TURKEY!

why? because Turkey and America has the best relations with the U.S after israil and the U.K.

why didnt they do anything when Turkey attacked cypres and took 40% of the island and the fact is TURKEY IS MUCH SUPRIOR THAN GREECE AND AMERICA BACK TURKEY MORE THAN GREECE!



First of all with your nick and caps lock it doesn't make you seem unbiased at all.
Secondly, yes, the US and turkey are close on the state level but the Turkish people don't like America. Also you guys are going Black Turk so it's only a matter of time before you start bleeding vital popularity in the West. Still might side with you though, unfortunately (imo).
 
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