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Subject: Turkey vs. Greece who better?
Irish Emo dudes    1/4/2007 7:32:39 PM
Greece spends 7 billion on their military and has american weapondry turkey spends 12 billion and also has american weapondry both used f-16's but turkey has ordered 100 f-35's not sure what greece is getting i think eurofighters...whose better militarily and who would win in a war (two different questions) and another thing i would like to know who is better trained?
 
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le_corsaire       2/7/2008 7:59:15 AM


2. Much greater military discipline. Turkey is number one in the world in that subject. 
 
4. More cost efficient money spending policies in military hardware. Greece spending more money in equivalent equipment because they buy less and could not bargain as well (because of EU agreements they signed).


9. Bad force allocation of Greek armed forces.
 

ad 2) How do you measure "military discipline" ? This is a very subjective claim and does not say anything. To factor at all.
ad 4) As far as I can see, the protection concept that Greece has in place is diversified and very focused on what the country needs. If you make such claims you need to look at the general/integrated defence concept and not on the amount of things bought by each country.
ad 5) What does "bad force allocation" mean ? How do you know ? 
 
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GREEK 4 EVER!!       2/7/2008 12:07:02 PM
oh yeah sorry i never mentioned that but still it took them 10 months to get in and only 40 days for france .are you french if yes the you got terrible soldiers if no french still arnt made for fighting. an u if you think takeing 10 bullets for you country is idiotic then you dont love not just your country but your mum,dad,relitives,wife,personal pride and you are just a coward that why greece wins its wars because we think of others not just our selves but our brothers and sisters of greece.AND ALSO I DO NOT WANT TO TALK TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE A COWARD AND I DONT TALK TO COWARDS YOU HAVE LOW EXPECTATIONS FOR YOU SELF AND YOUR COUNTRY YOU SHOULD BE LABLED A FAILURE BY THEM I CANNOT SEE HOW YOU CAN NOT BE ASHAMED OF YOUR SELF.
IF YOU LOOK LONG TERM ONE DAY YOU WILL DIE.BETTER TO SPEND THAT COST FOR YOUR COUNTRY NOT JUST FOR YOURSELF. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THIS WRLD IS TURNNING INTO ITS FULL OF COWARDS AND TRATORS!!
 
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Lynstyne       2/7/2008 12:22:57 PM
school holidays is it
 
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turk4lyf       2/10/2008 6:05:42 PM
Turkey wont start a war unless greece do, we dont want any more trouble then they do. If war was to break out, greece would have brung it onto themselves, because turkey wouldnt deliberately do anything to start a war, due to there processing "membership" into the EU. Now it wouldnt look good to start a war would it? A few conflicts here and there if greece was to threaten our position within cyprus etc, but other than that it would be very unlikely. Greece would surely regret any wrong mistakes. I personally believe everybody would benefit if we could just both stop our egos from getting in the way and being friends. But then again, it all falls down to those obsessive, REAL terrorists, the greek orthodox scene, who just seem to wind greeks up.

FOR EVERYONE TO KNOW, CYPRUS WAS NO INVADED BY TURKEY, BUT LIBERATED. IT WAS ORIGINAL OTTOMAN LAND BEFORE THE BRITISH RENTED IT FROM US TO PAY OFF A DEBT, FROM WHICH GREEKS KILLED THE BRITISH THEN TRIED TO KILL US IN ORDER TO OCCUPY THE LAND. FAMILY MEMBERS LIVED EVERY DISASTROUS SECOND OF IT, AND WHATEVER RUBBISH IS BEING SAID IS NOT TRUE. TURKEY COULDNT JUST SEND SUPPLIES SO TURKS COULD FIGHT BACK, IT NEEDED TO BE LIBERATED SO WE COULD SURVIVE.

dont let greek propaganda confuse you, please.

 
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Nichevo       2/10/2008 8:23:34 PM





2. Much greater military discipline. Turkey is number one in the world in that subject. 

 

4. More cost efficient money spending policies in military hardware. Greece spending more money in equivalent equipment because they buy less and could not bargain as well (because of EU agreements they signed).




9. Bad force allocation of Greek armed forces.

 



ad 2) How do you measure "military discipline" ? This is a very subjective claim and does not say anything. To factor at all.
ad 4) As far as I can see, the protection concept that Greece has in place is diversified and very focused on what the country needs. If you make such claims you need to look at the general/integrated defence concept and not on the amount of things bought by each country.

ad 5) What does "bad force allocation" mean ? How do you know ? 


On your #2 only, I have a thought:  the Turks are legendary for their harsh punishment of troops who disobey, fail, offend, etc.  Google "bastinado."  So in that sense they could be said to have a very strict discipline.  Perhaps this is what he meant.
 
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Nichevo       2/10/2008 8:33:30 PM
 an u if you think takeing 10 bullets for you country is idiotic then you dont love not just your country but your...
My dear Greek person, I think the idea is more along the lines of General Patton's dictum, The idea is not to die for your country, the idea is to make the other poor dumb SOB die for his.  In other words, if you have a choice of course, better the 10 bullets go into the Nazi, the Turk, or whoever, rather than into you. 

Or as another fellow said, Sometimes it is harder to live for your country than to die for it. 

Dying is easy, anyone can do it.

I might be willing to take ten bullets for something, but it wouldn't be my first option, is all I'm saying. 

Besides, how are you going to kill more of the enemy with ten bullets in you?  The Greek army and the Greek nation would prefer you to remain alive and keep shooting.
 
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le_corsaire       2/11/2008 3:54:23 AM

oh yeah sorry i never mentioned that but still it took them 10 months to get in and only 40 days for france .are you french if yes the you got terrible soldiers if no french still arnt made for fighting. an u if you think takeing 10 bullets for you country is idiotic then you dont love not just your country but your mum,dad,relitives,wife,personal pride and you are just a coward that why greece wins its wars because we think of others not just our selves but our brothers and sisters of greece.AND ALSO I DO NOT WANT TO TALK TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE A COWARD AND I DONT TALK TO COWARDS YOU HAVE LOW EXPECTATIONS FOR YOU SELF AND YOUR COUNTRY YOU SHOULD BE LABLED A FAILURE BY THEM I CANNOT SEE HOW YOU CAN NOT BE ASHAMED OF YOUR SELF.

IF YOU LOOK LONG TERM ONE DAY YOU WILL DIE.BETTER TO SPEND THAT COST FOR YOUR COUNTRY NOT JUST FOR YOURSELF. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THIS WRLD IS TURNNING INTO ITS FULL OF COWARDS AND TRATORS!!


What is really funny is that it is always those guys who sit in their children's room, shooting-out battles in their PCgames but have never been anywhere near a combat situation who are instantly "PREPARED TO TAKE 10 BULLETS" and who have "HIGH EXPECTATIONS FOR THEMSELVES".
 
It is important to give these people a good education and keep them away from dangerous things until they have grown up and recognize what nonsense they talk. However - I have to admit - that many times I have thought about just letting them take their 10 bullets if they wish ...  the world could be a better place then :-)
 


 
 
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le_corsaire       2/11/2008 4:13:02 AM


 an u if you think takeing 10 bullets for you country is idiotic then you dont love not just your country but your...


My dear Greek person, I think the idea is more along the lines of General Patton's dictum, The idea is not to die for your country, the idea is to make the other poor dumb SOB die for his.  In other words, if you have a choice of course, better the 10 bullets go into the Nazi, the Turk, or whoever, rather than into you. 

Or as another fellow said, Sometimes it is harder to live for your country than to die for it. 

Dying is easy, anyone can do it.

I might be willing to take ten bullets for something, but it wouldn't be my first option, is all I'm saying. 

Besides, how are you going to kill more of the enemy with ten bullets in you?  The Greek army and the Greek nation would prefer you to remain alive and keep shooting.
 
Nichevo, thanks for the defense. However, I really meant what I said:  I am really fed up with this macho bravado from people who have absolutely zero experience in that field.
 
I saw comrades passing away in Africa, on the Balkans (and some other places) and I know what it means to "take even one bullet". I got injured four times during my active time ... and I m really getting upset about what dumb schoolkids "would do and how many bullets they would take for their country if they ever have to ..." - I am not upset because "Greece 4 Ever" talks nonsense about my comrades or my nation or the troops I served in, but I am upset because I have seen what desasters such people can cause when they loose self-control (what seems to happens quite often. It even seems to be a strong part of their personality - at least they have never learned to control themselves - especially if they team up in groups).  

 
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le_corsaire       2/11/2008 4:22:48 AM


On your #2 only, I have a thought:  the Turks are legendary for their harsh punishment of troops who disobey, fail, offend, etc.  Google "bastinado."  So in that sense they could be said to have a very strict discipline.  Perhaps this is what he meant.
... this is what I also thought. But such methods alone do not say anything about effectiveness and efficiency in the battlefield ...  (it is well known that frequently commanders who were "strict" to this kind of disciplines died from being shot from behind on the battlefield).
I would be really interested what "bad force allocation" means ... anybody a clue ?

 
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turk4lyf       2/11/2008 9:02:49 AM
I think Turkeys historical success in wars, especially those about the canakale front, is an indication that discipline on the battle field is sufficient.

A lieutenant said once

"People always talk about dying for there country, but never of killing for there country".
No one expects you to die for your country in war, but rather survive it and kill your enemies; its the whole point, the more men on your side and the less on theres can change the path of a war completely.
The Russians also enforced heavy discipline on there troops in WWII, when commandos would guard the end of there battle field, and those who run in the other direction trying to escape the war like cowards get shot. It motivates one to fight, and be a man and be patriotic. Manpower is important, and if discipline, especially the likes of what Turkey enforces on the battlefield, will influence it, then let it be. Im fed up about all this democratic BS that men should be treated well on the battle field. Discipline of the kind isnt barbaric, the battle field is a nasty place, not a play ground.

Its a doggy dog world.

 
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