Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Armed Forces of the World Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Turkey vs. Greece who better?
Irish Emo dudes    1/4/2007 7:32:39 PM
Greece spends 7 billion on their military and has american weapondry turkey spends 12 billion and also has american weapondry both used f-16's but turkey has ordered 100 f-35's not sure what greece is getting i think eurofighters...whose better militarily and who would win in a war (two different questions) and another thing i would like to know who is better trained?
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: PREV  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32   NEXT
cwDeici       9/29/2010 8:55:44 PM
Greece could put up a good defensive fight but would no doubt lose. Turkey could be called off with economic sanctions or defeated by a coalition.
The most significant reason a coalition might occur would be, despite the strategic value of Turkey being far greater than Greece, the fact that Greece is a Christian nation and Turkey an Islamist nation... something that is becoming more important by the year. 
 
Like it or not murdering the Byzantines, an extremely peaceful empire, and the Armenians is something that matters even today.
 
Quote    Reply

cwDeici       9/29/2010 8:57:01 PM
Armenia for example has never been apologized for despite being the prototype of modern genocidal ethnic cleansing. Hitler himself is quoted as believing he could get away with his own programs due to the world ignoring this event.
 
Quote    Reply

cwDeici       9/29/2010 8:58:27 PM
But yeah Greek posters, you're dead in the water in general... or maybe not. There's a good chance Israel would intervene or perhaps even the US (at least economically). But Europe? Hah! All I can say is stop making offensive remarks about US peacemaking across the world.
 
Quote    Reply

b546569       10/2/2010 5:37:38 AM
Hey all,
are you really thinking that can be a war between greece and turkey ? I only laugh to you and you are discussing pages the power of counties... lol how old are you?
both are nato members so war is impossible for now
they can't even fire air-to-air missile to eachother it's locked to fire a non-enemy aircraft.
I don't have a problem with greece people we lived 100 and 100 years together in greece and also our great leader Ataturk born in greece territories and founded our nation.
in case of war you know the result 80 million turkey population and 10 million or 15 million greece population ?
It's worse than like china with 1.5 billion to america 450 million people. 
somebody messages about economy of greece is much way better then turkey.I recommend him to look it again, so anything can change 
greeting from Turkey 
 
Quote    Reply

pseudocode       10/30/2010 6:23:35 PM

@Taximdriver

You think so! Open your history book and look at the page of World's Second War. These numbers don't say anything. It is just "guessing". Why can't Americans beat Irak? Why can't they beat anyone? Because they are the attackers.

War is not maths or statistic... Greeks did not have any oil reserve before, or money reserve. They were always a poor country, (excluding the Greeks of Constantinople and generally from outside Greece) but they DID RESIST!!!

 

Sorry but this is the truth.

Respect!

 


&&05; dont give a shit who wins man. but all &&05; know is f-335 would be very big force factor. can you shoot  invisible man ? For your air defence f-35 is that guy ( the invisible man ). Besides numbers are clear. greece has a long long way to cope with turkey with these numbers. besides your demographiss sucks. your median age is 43 as well as turkeys 28. only 30 percent of your population is under 32.  Whom are you gonna use to fight?the elders? Besides, assume there had been a miracle and you won, you ll be again the loser by losing your young population.  you seem like you are already in a fight with these demographic and economical problems. A third war would be too much for you. Especially with a more populated and economocally more improved country.
 
take care .. bye
 
Quote    Reply

pseudocode       10/30/2010 6:30:20 PM

@Taximdriver

You think so! Open your history book and look at the page of World's Second War. These numbers don't say anything. It is just "guessing". Why can't Americans beat Irak? Why can't they beat anyone? Because they are the attackers.

War is not maths or statistic... Greeks did not have any oil reserve before, or money reserve. They were always a poor country, (excluding the Greeks of Constantinople and generally from outside Greece) but they DID RESIST!!!

 

Sorry but this is the truth.

Respect!

 


&&05; dont give a shit who wins man. but all &&05; know is f-335 would be very big force factor. can you shoot  invisible man ? For your air defence f-35 is that guy ( the invisible man ). Besides numbers are clear. greece has a long long way to cope with turkey with these numbers. besides your demographiss sucks. your median age is 43 as well as turkeys 28. only 30 percent of your population is under 32.  Whom are you gonna use to fight?the elders? Besides, assume there had been a miracle and you won, you ll be again the loser by losing your young population.  you seem like you are already in a fight with these demographic and economical problems. A third war would be too much for you. Especially with a more populated and economocally more improved country.
 
take care .. bye
 
Quote    Reply

youngnoize    ...   11/11/2010 1:16:58 AM
look although turkey had enslaved greece for 400 they couldnt defeat greece and take the country for their own also there is a special op unit which trains a greek soldier to hande 4-5 men at once and from the 100 people they sign only 2 - 3 pass the tests now idk if these results are real bad if they are it's really badass
 
Quote    Reply

Bong_McDoogle87       1/27/2011 8:39:45 AM
First you should get a history book regarding the crusades that is not printed by Greek/Turkish/Islamic sources to learn that the Crusades were not a counteroffensive but were an offensive at capturing the holy land from Islam. The first crusade was initiated by Christendom and the major sore point between Christendom and Islam is still being felt today because of the initial attack by the Christian holy army on Islam. Some of the early mosques (Islamic centers of worship) of the era before the first crusade were dual purpose mosques purposefully built to service Christian pilgrims on Sunday and Muslims on Friday.

So get your facts right and despite the popular notion that Islam is always attacking such and such, history proves that Christendom was the first to strike out.

You call Turks genocidal? Then it would stand to reason that if a race is xenophobic and genocidal in it's actions then the nations and colonies it takes over should have no resemblance to their pre colonial/pre invasion situation. Again you are wrong in this account to call Turks genocidal as Greeks speak Greek, are Christian and the same applies to the Armenians, Bulgars, Arabs etc et all, IE: They speak and practice their own religion.

Compare the above point to the French and British empires who not only converted their colonies to Christendom but also destroyed much of their culture and replaced it with the British, French culture and language. This is why after all the world's most popular language is English followed by French and as an anglo saxon Australian I can tell you we speak English, have no idea about native Aboriginal culture, religion and language but we also all say "God save the Queen" during those times we remember that we are still a colony of the British commonwealth.

Your argument also contains the hidden premise of Turks are Turks therefore they are evil. Remember all nations have been responsible for crimes in their past and no nation is angelic, the Turks however have a very good cause of denying the supposed genocide of the Armenians and Greeks. They were after all in a war from four sides and had to result in total war tactics in which their women and children also fought for their nation and under these conditions logic dictates that the manpower to commit a genocide would be impossible. People are also not dumb as anyone can look at the Ottoman census for the time period and can easily stipulate that the total Christian population in the region of Anatol was 1.5 million which completely destroys the genocide claimants as the figures of lives lost in this genocide do not match with historical fact.
 
Quote    Reply

Bong_McDoogle87       1/27/2011 9:59:25 AM
The figure of Turkey's military spending is not accurate a simple search shows that Turkey does not make public it's arms budget and estimates for 2010 place it at an easy 40-45 billion USD.

People who state that the Greek military is better equipped do not actually know the reality, while the Greek defense industry produces ELBO tanks some ammunition and minor weapons the Turkish defense industry has become a major power armaments supplier when compared to their situation just two decades ago.

A simple research yields the following sample of products completed and in service or under test trials:

Milgem (Turkish corvette and frigate class of ships).
NTBP (OPV sub killer).
MRTP range of ships with the MRTP-33 gaining considerable press time due to the innovation that it presents.

The important thing is the above three are all naval products that are currently in service or under trials and all have stealth
technologies developed by Turks. The MRTP-33 is like the LCS concept gaining a lot of media coverage due to the concept of modular warships as in the weapons package on the MRTP33 can be adapted to the situation and it is possible to have a ASW/AA & anti sub load out making it an all rounder.

The Turks are known for it seems for building patrol ships with corvette style weapons and you can assume that they may intend to build dozens it not hundreds of these ships making the Aegean a Turkish sea. It is also reported that even at detection the Milgem thanks to it's stealth tech appears on radar to have the radar signature of a fishing trawler.

T-155
ACV-300
Panter
K-300 & K-500
Otkar Cobra
Otkar Ejder

T-155 is a Turkish equivalent of the German original, both have the same appearance and armaments however it was developed independently with the help from Korea and has an apparent 30-40km longer maximum range.

The ACV-300 is a Turkish built IFV/APC that appears to be a replacement to the thousands of 60's & 70's era APC's the Turks have.

The Panter is a rapid deployment artillery that can navigate difficult and mountainous terrain and video demons shows that it can fire and be on the move again within 30 seconds. Anyone who has served in the military knows that due to the range of artillery aircraft spotters are usually send on ahead to knock out artillery by guiding/laser painting targets (usually artillery). The 30 second fire and move out of danger makes the Panter an infantry nightmare.

K-300 and K-500 are Chinese assisted and jointly developed short and medium range SSM launchers and it is speculated the Turkish army is working to improve the range of the K-500.

The Otkar Cobra is known to be unlike the Humvee to be IED resistant, the structure of the vehicle allows it to "jump" as it hits a mine/IED and this also allows it to easily navigate difficult terrain.

The Ejder is amphibious and it can swim at 12kmh it like the Cobra is also IED resistant and both the Ejder and Cobra have better armor then their Russian counterparts, the latest Russian equiv has it's thickest armor protection enough to protect it from weapons fire up to 12mm in the front while the Ejder and Cobra protect the crew and passengers from 12mm and less fire from all 4 sides.
 
I can confirm all of the above (except the K-300 & K-500) Turkish built/jointly built products have other nations that have shown interest in the acquisition of these weapons.

Turkey has also developed it's own drones at least several of them with the most reported and commented on being the TAI ANKA. The initial A variant will be surv/spy purposes only and the second B variant will be equipped with weapons. While the Herron has better range and ceiling height the ANKA has better optics and a AI package that makes the ANKA turn around and return to base automatically if communications with base it lost, the Herron lacks these and this is why the media in Turkey and in some overseas nations reporting the ANKA to be superior.

The above is by no means the total list, the Turks are known to make small arms such as snipper rifles as well as encryption devices that at slightly superior to existing NATO portable encryption tech and they are currently being sold to NATO countries I think it was ASELSAN that achieved this (Used by NATO forces in making laptops and computers safe from information theft).

In a Greece vs Turkey situation it is
 
Quote    Reply

Bong_McDoogle87       1/27/2011 10:27:52 AM
Also wanted to point out that Greece as stated by the defense minister in 2010 (look up Aljazeera on Youtube for the report) will be cutting her defense force by 33 percent by 2012.

Given the cutbacks in Greece and her dire financial situation (of over employment in the government and services sector) and the developments in Turkey it supports the fact that the Turks will be the dominant power in the Aegean as well as the Muslim world, this also lends support to some expert's claim of Turkey's regional hegemony status since Greece is no longer a viable threat to Turkey (and the Russian Black Sea fleet is to small (split in 2 between Ukraine and Russia after the USSR break apart) to pose a challenge to the entire Turkish navy).

The financial crisis in Greece had also tell tail signs before the GFC materialized as stats show that Greeks are the biggest on a per population basis users of social media websites (such as this) indicating that while they had very low unemployment the employed however actually did not work and had a lot of free time (which is always good) however the situation is this:

1. Overemployed government and services sector, which cannot be maintained indefinitely given the very little work these government and private sector services companies actually did.

2. An arms race with Turkey. Given what is now apparent the attempted arms race with Turkey in hindsight appears to be fatal to Greece's living conditions.

3. Large scale tax evasion and 13 months of annual wages. Yes 13 months! Everything was in cash so very little was circulated back into government coffers which would have allowed Greece to remain financially viable and able to extend the life of the arms race with Turkey.

These 3 points show that Greece will not be a threat to Turkey anytime soon and even then given the no apparent slow down of the Turkish economy it may never be in a condition to Turkey, and European demands for jobs cuts (given the over employment), 33 percent force reduction & riots in Greece are signs that the country is re adjusting itself to the levels of operational ability the world expects from it, which is to say a significant employment & economic reduction in line with it's relative population size. 

The merchant marine fleet that Greeks value so much however are a non point since these vessels fly flags of convenience and given the large scale tax evasion and the cash only style of living do not most likely contribute to the nation, however all is not lost when Greeks do accept the reforms that the EU is demanding (as painful it may be) they will return to their previous lives although one in which (and for the sake of the nation) paper trails exist for the government to give it the ability to collect it's due.

There is also the fact that given the large scale government and private sector cutbacks their is nothing however stopping workers from creating their own businesses, so life will return to normal however Greece will not be a exclusively services nation (as is typical of highly developed nations) but a mixture of manual labor, services nation that has over representation in the private sector (in terms of the number employed) and justified representation of the number of government employees.
 
Quote    Reply
PREV  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32   NEXT



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics