Well if you ask me,  lowering the USA's influence in Turkey's politics, economy and military would be in the interest of EVERY Turk

About invading Iraq?
Look from our view please..It's been 20 years since PKK began killing people(30k so far including innocents).Every month they kill about 10 people...last week they killed 13
Their tactics are simple.Put bomb ,blow it when soldiers pass and run back to Iraq.Always ambushing and running to Iraq.I know you don't have to care but every dead soldier is an individual.They have dreams, people who love them and some have children.
I feel terrified when reading "he had 20 days left to finish his duty and go back to his 2 children and wife"

I know most Americans got used to this, how many really cares about the dying Iraqis....everyday

USA has been saying that they're going to support us, we're going to operate together but the next day I see on the news some American soldiers beside a building with PKK flag(not Kurdistan, PKK flag)
Then we find m-16s and all this technological stuff on them....where are they getting these?
Years ago we found out that they get their support from Armenia,Greece, Kurds in N.Iraq(and the USA automatically), even countries like Belgium,Denmark and Germany are defending them.
Now hearing this everyday , that the USA will help us got funny now.The most Kemalist organistion in Turkey, the army(TSK) is being weakened with these things......AKP(the leader party) is also trying to weaken army using the so called "freedom" Europe wants.AKP even though having a religious background is supported by the US....I don't know what to think about this...but AKP has done NOTHING to stop PKK.


"The Idea that Turkey is being picked on because it is a Muslim country is totally ridiculous and naive."
Well it is not....most people doesn't even know where this conflict happened and how it happened but they automatically belive it because there are violent,psychopat Muslims in it killing innocent,has done nothing bad pure Christian Armenians
This event HAS NEVER BEEN discussed in an academic place....it's a poltical tool for countries who wants to vote against Turkey and get money and weaken it
It's an imperialist lie to divide Turkey(Ottoman, being very multiethnic) during WW1.To weaken it...and it pretty succeded.

are all for creating a bad idea about the Turks in the world....
This link is an example

	Yes. Many scholars agree that the Ottoman Turks systematically killed up to 1.5 million Armenians. Other countries have recognized this as genocide. The U.S. should do the same. 62% http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/ColorBoxes/Styles/ColorboxImages%28globalonlyplease%29/dotRed.gif" height="10" width="239">
	No. Historians continue to debate whether the deaths were genocide. Besides, Turkey is too important an ally to alienate when the U.S. has troops in the Middle East.

The way choice "no" is written
Armenian diaspora in the world is very strong.....they don't even care about the poor Armenia....


What annoys me most is another thing.....WHO THE HELL are the parlementers to decide a historical event and make it a LAW
In so-called "free" Europe, you go to jail when you deny Armenian genocide.....they arrest even professors and make pressure on them to change their views.....There are many American historians who wrote about the conflict and didN't have much pressure.Now they'll have, and, maybe even be threathened
How can these parlementers know it beter than historian..In France historians didn't want it to be a law and thought it shouldstay as an historical problem...but no it has to be political

In Turkey when someone says that "genocide" happened, and says Turks were barbars the're viewed as modernist democrats by west.......some even get nobel prizes for that
The rest has to be the barbar Turks of course...why the hell we don't go back to steppes

"If I was a Turk I would probably be doing the same thing. Turkey is looking out for their interests and they are tired of who they call terrorists crossing their border and killing their citizens, who then retreat back across the border knowing the Turks cannot follow. The US is not preventing this from happening therefore they must do so themselves."

^^
This is from American.....I hope there are more guys like this
Europe has made us a toy, we've been waiting since 1950s to get in EU....they take countries like Bulgaria,Romania and other screwed ones but not Turkey.....wth
They made most of the economic agreements to make things cheaper for them saying "you'll get in anyway"...but no we don't
Under the name of "freedom" they made the country more religious.

It seems to me that Europe is still quite busy fighting Jews and Muslims after all of this time. Pretty sad. I'm sure they'd be fighting each other too if we hadn't been occupying them all of this time. Joining their anti Turkish campaign is insanity. I'm not saying Turkey is a perfect place. They are not. They are not even a free nation in the European sense of the word. They are a secular nation though, and we should support secularism in the face of rule by religious extremists. It is not so much that Turkey is important because we have troops in the middle east. Turkey is important because it is part of the ongoing geopolitical struggle between secular nations and religious extremist rule. Just as the US was forced to support communists during WWII in the name of defeating fascism, we must support some secular nations now that are not fully free in the name of defeating religious extremism. I'd make the same case for Sadam Hussein's Iraq if he had respected the borders of his neighbors and not supported terrorism against Israel.

What I am curious about is the motivation behind bringing this event to the surface now, today.  It was an event that occured 90-odd years ago.  I have to ask...whats the point?  Whether it was, or was not genocide, why did the U.S. legistlature feel the need to officially call it genocide, and why after so much time was fast.  It doesnt change shit, the people are still dead,  (or not).  The past is past.  

Exactly Rockey.  In reply to something meatier, I am not trying to demean or belittle by any means the events in the past or a humanistic motivation.  Genocide is something extremely evil and it is rather depressing that it is a fairly common occurence throughout human history.  

Great point, what exactly will it take for western society to no longer tolerate such acts in todays world. Places like Darfur and Burma and many other countless tragic locations on earth get little attention and almost no coverage. But then who is going to do anything about it? Tree huggers love saving nature just as long as its not human. The UN will just as likely put the perps on the human rights council as they are to actually do something about it, US is stretched thin with real global threats and the rest of the west could give a crap.

But thats not the issue of the thread, the issue is that if it were not for Turkeys bitching and moaning, most people wouldn't even know about the proposed vote on the matter. Its bad enough that Muslims think they can get there way infringing on our freedom of speech and expression by throwing a violence fit, now we have a nation giving a tantrum over a meaning less bill in OUR government?

Is it unconvenient timing, sure. Is there any good to be had out of it, probably not. What it does demonstrate however is whether or not we will keep our right to call a spade a spade or if we will revert to the pre Reagan era of playing nice .