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Subject: IDF military independence
Ezekiel    2/13/2007 12:47:38 PM
As anti-semitism grows and arab propoganda demonizing Israel spreads throughout the west, how precisely and through what platform developments should Israel's military industry and thus its military be able to attain a necessary independence to be able to fight its enemies without huge military dependency influences.
 
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Lawman       4/15/2007 7:16:33 AM
The reality is that Israel could produce more than it does, but it doesn't have a great deal of need to at the moment. The primary things to settle on for (limited) independence in equipment terms would be:
 
- Obtain a license for production of the Bell 412 or similar: it may not be glamorous, but it is cheap enough, and can carry out a good variety of roles, e.g. light gunship, transport, anti-submarine warfare etc...
 
- Obtain a license for production of the Bell 206 or similar, which would be able to form the basis of a light gunship and observation helo, and would be cheap enough.
 
- Obtain a license for the PW1120 engine or the GE F110 engine, or similar, and update the Lavi, for which development was pretty much done anyway. It may not be a JSF, but it is a good enough fighter for Israel's needs, and if necessary could replace most types currently used in the event of an embargo. As long as unit cost is kept low, then Israel could afford to roll out enough per year to keep the IASF in operation.
 
- Start producing a UCAV design, which would give Israel a useful, but cheap, strike capability
 
- Start producing missile armed patrol boats, with a healthy missile armament, not glamorous, but good enough
 
Basically, the key is to have the ability to produce enough to survive an embargo, and in fact, a license for the HAL Dhruv would be good, since it could handle most helicopter taskings. As long as you produce a helicopter, fighter, tank, IFV, patrol boat and small arms, plus suitable missiles for them, then you can survive an embargo reasonably well.
 
$2bn a year would probably be enough to buy ~40 Lavi fighters a year, which is enough to replace the current fighter fleet. It is a lot of money, but any less would put that ability in doubt. Another $1bn a year would buy ~50-75 helicopters a year, more than enough to field a large helicopter force, though admittedly not heavylift or dedicated attack types, but these are not realistic. $0.5bn would easily buy half a dozen good patrol craft, though more in the Saar 4 size class than proper frigates or similar. Another $0.5bn would be more than enough to field a good number of UAVs and UCAVs (probably Shoval UAVs and Eitan UCAVs).
 
All this only adds up to $4bn a year, to field a reasonable range of capabilities, added to things like Merkava and small arms and missile procurement, and you have a largely self sufficient defense industry.
 
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Ezekiel       5/10/2007 11:31:06 AM
Israel has been in production of the jericho 3 ballistic missile for the past 2 years which has a range of 5000 kM.This should add to its strategic weapons arsenal.

Is Israel examining seriously options for defense of its space assets?

Is there are any big procurement projects in the offing this year for Israel? One would think that giving the threat perception Israel would be embarking on an ambitious arm build up for its defense as well as public morale, but I have heard of nothing of the sort going on.

 
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Shirrush       5/10/2007 12:44:10 PM

Israel has been in production of the jericho 3 ballistic missile for the past 2 years which has a range of 5000 kM.This should add to its strategic weapons arsenal.
Yeah, and Santa Klaus has recently upgraded his antigrav sled with a satcom/satnav suite and a SAP-based toy distribution management system!
Also, if my regretted Grandma had had wheels, she'd probably would have been an Egged bus!

The kind-hearted people at SP planted this story to do whatever they can to help us, since they know our deterrent has gone so far down the drain lately, that it's beginning to become a temptation for our enemies and a matter of concern for our friends.
Good to see it is believed in some parts. Got any source confirming this story?
 
 
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Ezekiel       5/10/2007 1:53:36 PM
shirrush,

Though it is not much it is still something,

Details were revealed on the Jericho III in the US Wisconsin Project report that monitors the progress of nuclear weapons in countries throughout the world.

According to the report, the Jericho 3 missile has been operational in the Israeli Air Force since 2005. The Jericho 3 missile is capable of carrying a nuclear warhead and follows the Jericho 2 surface to surface missile that has a distance capability of 1,500 kilometers.


I agree... i'm scraping for something....anything.

 
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Ezekiel       5/24/2007 5:42:55 AM
Israel must be able to enhance its defense budget to 20-25 billion annual budget. This requires Israel to initiate certain changes and developments.

1) economic volume capacity must be increased
          a) aliyah of a further 1 - 1.5 million jews
2) Tourist hub
          a) security from Palestinian terror
          b) restoration of Israeli holy site
                 - 12 tribes burial sites
                 - Joshua Burial site...... there is obviously much more biblical sites these were some examples.
          c) Make public wireless cities in Haifa, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Eilat.
          d) Public works
3) Education investment
          a) create more universities
          b) Allow for decentralization in terms of principals at schools having more autonomy
          c) increase private schools and academies.
          d) New education carricullum that takes a more nationalist narrative infusing spirituality with the land and historical               relevance...... (700,000 Israeli's currently reside outside the state).
          e)  Government  provides  new tech to each classroom  with sizes no more then 25 per classroom
          f) Constant testing for progress and reliability of students, teachers, administrators and institutions.
          h) vocational training for unemployed in collaberation w/ private sector for job placement
4) Free Market economy
          a) Lower income and corporate tax by a significant amount.....spur business creation and personal wealth.
          b) Deregulation of Banks and increase banking competition.....banks are the stimulants to economies.
          c) There must be in any market at least 7 competitors. less then this is a rigid oligarchy that can regulate tech               and prices.
          d) Government involvement in trust busting, business ethics, employment search for unemployed citizens.
          e) emphasis and protection of entrepaneurship, intellectual property and small business.
5) civil service
          a) pay increase.....stop corruption
          b) time limit to working for the government...... maybe 20 years.
          c) organization that has oversight power and effeciency evaluation
6) R & D
          a) Government must constantly invest in its citizens and then take a cut of its innovation
          b) free public Internet wireless cities haifa, eilat, tel aviv, jerusalem.


if this process is started a further 20 billion for Israel's defense budget which ensures a large amount of military independence necessary for Israel to only rely on Israel does not seem so improbable. check out other economies that are small and have limited  natural resources and have adopted an entrepeneur economy..... Taiwan,  s. korea, singapore,   etc


                

 
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Ezekiel       6/4/2007 8:11:46 AM
If given the resources today, Israel Navy could develop two classes of naval ships A destroyer class strike boat, this would give it the ability to have an expeditionary force, extending Israeli force projection. This would also provide Israel with a further deterrence of gaining Egyptian confidence. It also provides israel with a formidable defense against a blockade strategy.

The second platform would be an Israeli attack submarine. Due to the complexities inherent in the submarine shipbuilding industry it would start like n.korea and Iran building smaller crafts, but evolve it over 2 decades into the ability to produce world class subs. This will provide Israel with independence in the making of a strategic weapon such as is it's nuke program. Submarine are an integral to any country that demands a certain level of Independence. Until Israel has an adequate and independent submarine force, which shall give the tactical and strategic advantage that its air wing then Israel will never fully attain any real regional hegemony.

Israel equipped with a sub and destroyer arm comparable to it s air strength would completely change Israeli force projection, deterrence and the Iranian equation. Its time for Israel to start investing in the sea and not just the air.

Economically speaking this would take Israeli ship building into a new sphere and can become a whole new industry for Israel to compete in. Not to mention the job creation potential's in the government investing in a ship building industry in Israel.

 
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Ezekiel       6/6/2007 1:21:46 PM
How is it even after the failed lebanon campaign last summer and the rising tensions with syria, has not succeeded  pressuring heavy investment in procurement projects that include night vision, thermal vision for every infantry soldier. The fact that elbit systems is a leading manufacturer for these devices and the army still has not equipped them is baffling.



 
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iSoldier       6/6/2007 7:38:36 PM


Basically, the key is to have the ability to produce enough to survive an embargo, and in fact, a license for the HAL Dhruv would be good, since it could handle most helicopter taskings. As long as you produce a helicopter, fighter, tank, IFV, patrol boat and small arms, plus suitable missiles for them, then you can survive an embargo reasonably well.


That will please India to no end India will probably buy back Israeli stuff worth 1000 times more just for the gesture!
 
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iSoldier       6/6/2007 7:53:36 PM
Platforms? Battlebots!

It just addresses one persistent Israeli concern of not taking heavy losses, but Israel needs to look beyond platforms towards economic warfare and address its weaknesses there to pre-empt a situation where it would need to have military independence. Basically it should position itself in such an solid economic footing that the significant portion of the world where neither anti-Semitism nor Islamic influence hold sway - Israel can rely for the unavoidable dependencies. Such portions of the world can route materials in war and support innovation in peace.

 
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Ezekiel       7/4/2007 6:28:53 AM
It looks like Israel has 4 billion $ surplus so far this year, with an increase in US military aid, Israel has the opportunity to invest in home grown platforms.... which is being called for by polticians across the knesset. Also Israel is in major need of  a morale booster. With Ehud Barak's surprise promotion as defense minister couple with his past remarks on the Israeli military establishment.....it looks like Israel will build its very own attack helicopter (more than likely a variant of the "hokum"). I can't think of another platform they could be thinking of producing.




 
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