Christian proselytizing in Israel

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Subject: Christian proselytizing in Israel
reefdiver 5/7/2007 11:58:26 AM

A friend was trying to tell me that a Christian can go to jail in Israel for proselytizing. Though I can find numerous attempts to pass such laws (one article mentioned a penalty of 5 years in prison), I can find little about such laws actually being enacted. I've seen comments that the LDS have voluntarily agreed not to proselytize in Israel, but nothing concrete denying such. Anyone have more info on this?

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Shirrush 5/7/2007 4:11:07 PM

Yeah, such a law prohibiting proselytism was proposed by the religious parties making up Begin's first, or second coalition government at the end of the '70s or in the early '80s. The subject came up after it had been proven that a US-based Christian missionary group had bribed poor Jewish families to undergo Baptism and emigrate from the country. I don't know whether the law was passed or not by Parliament, but missionary activities are certainly not encouraged here, since they are rightfully seen as a strategic-level threat, an attempt against the Jewish character of the only Jewish country in the world. I do remember that the then-vocal secular opposition did not make a fuss about this, and no protests about religious freedom were raised on this matter. There was a wide consensus in the country at the time, about the nefariousness and the immorality of such missionary practices.
I am not aware, however, that anyone was ever sentenced under such a law, so if it exists, it is probably one of the numerous useless ones that are never, or cannot be enforced.
One thing I'm certain of, and it is that contrarily to what goes on in all Muslim countries, apostasy is not illegal here. Israelis are free to convert to whichever religion they chose, and risk no more than social opprobrium for betraying Judaism.

Christianity is actually flourishing these days, among the numerous guest workers, mostly Philipinos, living among us. They don't proselytize us, we don't proselytize them (mainstream Judaism is wary of conversions), and everybody enjoys the peaceful and friendly status-quo except for a tiny number of religious fanatics that certainly do go to jail whenever they try to do anything that interferes with the freedom of cult.

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Shirrush Practically... 5/7/2007 4:23:49 PM

Let's lawyer this a bit, willya?
If I get into a theological discussion with you, and you prove so convincing that I take the dip, my G_d-fearing brothers will still have to prove your illegal missionary activity in court, which would be impossible if there had not been a financial transaction complete with paper trail. This is why such a law can hardly be enforced. Burden of proof!

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reefdiver 5/7/2007 7:40:36 PM

Thanks for the comments. Was just curious. Incidently, I find it really strange - make that bizarre - that any Christian group would have ever tried to pay someone to convert.

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Herc the Merc reefdiver 5/7/2007 7:58:05 PM

Thanks for the comments. Was just curious. Incidently, I find it really strange - make that bizarre - that any Christian group would have ever tried to pay someone to convert.

Plenty of Christian groups pay and coerce people to convert especially in the poorer countries. In India in the North east they use terrorist techniques.In fact the FBI was on one case recently, I think a Baptist group backed by US funding.

98% of Nagaland is Christian, 90% of whom are regular Baptists. If you are not a Christian, you have no social presence there and you live constantly in fear. I would invite you to go the Northestern Hill University Campus. They have a substantial Naga presence. You cannot belong to the student union there if you are not a Christian. Go to Manipur, and see for yourself how the Christians are terrorising the Hindu Manipuris. Go to Tripura. See how systematically the Christian tribals are killing Hindu Bengalis. Only recently, the beleaguered Hindus have formed vigilante groups there. At this time, the desparate govt is distributing arms to the people to defend themselves.

Just recently (NDTV news), Baptist Nagas vandalized a Buddhist temple in Tripura and proclaimed that no other religion other than Christianity is allowed there. Do you know that these Christian groups regularly come and threaten schoolchildren to not conduct Saraswati puja in their schools ? Do you know that these Christian groups banned viewing Mahabharata in TV?

I am sure, you did not know.

Regards,

Dhruba.

_____________________

Hence if u note after Tsunami no Christian or international religious charity was allowed in the country.

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Herc the Merc 5/7/2007 8:01:20 PM

Christian Terrorists Kill 44, Wound 118 in Attacks in Northeast India

GUWAHATI, India (AFP)

October 2, 2004

Some 44 people were killed and 118 wounded in three nearly simultaneous bomb blasts Saturday morning in Dimapur, Nagaland's commercial hub, in what a top official called the "worst ever terrorist strike" in the tiny state's history.

Gunmen in neighbouring Assam state later killed 15 villagers and injured a dozen more, police said.

"There were limbs everywhere and blood was splattered all over," said student leader T. Zheviho who was at crowded Dimapur railway station where one bomb exploded as passengers awaited a train.

Two other bombs went off in the Hong Kong market, which sells Chinese goods, and an adjacent market.

"I had a miraculous escape," Zheviho told AFP by telephone from Dimapur, 70 kilometers (45 miles) east of Nagaland capital Kohima.

Police said the plastic explosive RDX appeared to have been used in the railway blast that created a huge crater beside a platform.

"We found a briefcase with fuse wires... it contained RDX and a timer-device," V. Peseyie, Dimapur additional police chief, said.

Seventeen more people were killed in a wave of attacks in neighbouring Assam, police said.

Unidentified attackers raked shoppers with gunfire at a marketplace in Makri Jhora village, 290 kilometres (180 miles) west of Assam's main city of Guwahati, killing 11 and injuring about a dozen, police said.

The same gunmen later shot dead four more villagers in a nearby forest, police superintendent L. R. Bishnoi told AFP. Two more people were killed and 10 injured in two blasts in the Assamese district of Bongaingaon, 220 kilometres (136 miles) from Guwahati, Bishnoi said.

One person was killed and seven wounded in an earlier bomb blast in Assam.

Police also reported two other bombings in a village on the outskirts of Guwahati in which four people were injured.

There were no immediate claims of responsibility for the day of bloodshed in the insurgency-infested northeast where some 30 guerrilla groups are battling for greater autonomy or independence.

The attacks occurred as India marked the 135th anniversary of the birth of Mahatma Gandhi who waged a campaign of non-violence to free the country from British rule.

"It is distressing such violence broke out on the birth anniversary of Mahatma Gandhi," Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said in the capital New Delhi.

Nagaland's ill-equipped hospitals battled to treat the wounded.

"Many have multiple face and abdomen wounds. They're in a state of trauma. We're trying to cope. We've never had such a devastating emergency," sa

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Ezekiel 5/8/2007 2:11:56 AM

The law stipulates that illegal proseletyzing is not when one's rhetorical persuasions are too good, it it using material benefits to induce one's theological choice. That translates into not being able to give people money in order to get them to come to meetings, it means no material benefit or rewards for practicing or going out to get others to practice a faith.

I have been personally approached by jews for jesus, evangelicals, LDS when i have visited Israel... but I have never been seriously proselettyzed too. The laws are enforced I was told by them in fines, audits, evictions, deportations, sometimes investigations and rarely jail time.

The law has a clear practicality and its necessity is quite self evident in regards to the needs and requirements of a Jewish State.

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Shirrush 5/8/2007 3:55:04 AM

Thank you Herc for your totally irrelevant contribution.
We've learned something about the situation in a remote corner of the planet that is rarely covered by the mainstream news agencies, and you've proven again that you're a nutball.

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reefdiver 5/8/2007 11:16:34 AM

The law has a clear practicality and its necessity is quite self evident in regards to the needs and requirements of a Jewish State.

I find this fascinating. I at times have difficulty with confusing the genetic "Jewish State of Israel" and the practicing religious "Jewish State". Is Israel designed as a state for genetic Jews or for those practicing Judaism? Is it in fact a theocracy? Is a Christian Jew any less Israeli than one practicing Judaism? The statement above seems to imply that Israel would be threatened by Christianity. Interestingly, I've had a Christian friend of Jewish descent who still felt quite comfortable in his (own) practice of Judaism as well. He still loved joining with those at the Synagogue (I think it was the great social scene - even I enjoyed the times I visited). His comment was that Christ was a practicing Jew who even preached in the Synagogue.

I'm not trying to make any point here, just gain some insight.

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Herc the Merc Oh Shirrush-- 5/8/2007 12:37:51 PM

The reality is a few thousand jews of the lost tribes moved from North East India to Israel (yes from that Maoist Christian radical enclave)--quite recently actually. The other relevance being -since Israel is a Jewish state such conversions maybe put to test legally if it found converts, which is not the case yet or likely, but where conversions have polarized society government has stepped in to stop it ie in India u need a legal permission in some states to change religion or at least a legal notification.

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Herc the Merc hirrush obviously you do not follow ALL world events--very interesting case of Christian born jews in the NEast of India and conversions etc etc etc. 5/8/2007 12:54:03 PM

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Asia/Pacific - India - Judaism

"'Lost tribe' of Indian Jews migrates to Israel"

by Zarir Hussain (AFP, November 16, 2006)

Guwahati, India - More than 200 Indians have emigrated to Israel after they were officially recognised as Jews, religious leaders said.

Rabbinical leaders announced last March that some 6,000 members of the Bnei Menashe tribe in India's northeast were descendants of ancient Israelites or one of the Biblical 10 lost tribes.

"A total of 105 people left for Israel on Thursday, while another 103 people went Wednesday with the Israeli Prime Ministers office formally inviting them," Israeli rabbi Hannock Avizedek told AFP.

The Jews travelled from India's northeastern Mizoram state to Israel.

The recognition from Israel came after tribe members sent scores of applications seeking to migrate to Israel, or the "Promised Land", saying it was their right to do so.

According to Israeli law, every Jew enjoys the "right of return" - or the right of abode in the country.

After the recognition, a group of rabbis visited Mizoram last September and converted the first batch of 218 Mizo tribal people to Judaism after they took a holy dip at a mikvah or a ritual bath.

"The new converts are practising the religion perfectly. They will undergo a year-long course in Israel to learn other aspects of Judaism at government expense," Avizedek told AFP by phone from Aizwal, shortly before leaving.

The rabbi spent six months in state capital Aizwal to teach Hebrew and impart lessons in Judaism to the tribal people.

"I am so happy today and it is a dream come true as we leave for our Holy Land," said 30-year-old Bana Kholring, whose businessman husband Avior and three teenaged children were also migrating with her.

Some 800 people from Mizoram and neighbouring Manipur state have migrated to Israel since 1994 when a private body, the Amishav Association took up their case. The last batch of 71 left the northeast for Jerusalem in May 2003.

Mizoram is a predominantly Christian state, while most Manipuris follow Hinduism. Most Jews in the two states were Christian by birth.

Apart from names, the converts share many practices in common with traditional Jews -- such as keeping mezuzahs or parchment inscribed with verses of the Torah at the entrance to their homes. The men wear a kippah or headgear during prayers.

"I have no regrets at all to leave my birth place because Israel is our Promised Land," Zimra Hnamte, a 50-year-old widow, said.

The 208 Mizo Jews would be settled in the cities of Nazareth Illit and Karmiel in northern Israel.

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