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Subject: Nu'a, nu'a, nu'a!
Shirrush    1/3/2009 1:30:25 PM
T'seems that the ground ops have started about one hour ago, in a rather classical manner with a heavy artillery preparation. Good hunting and safe return to our troops!
 
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Shirrush       1/3/2009 1:41:36 PM
The Israeli Arutz2 TV station is showing columns of infantry entering the Strip from the North, on foot.
El-Reuters has something about it too, and HaAretz as well as Ynet confirm.
 

 
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jastayme3       1/3/2009 3:00:25 PM


The Israeli Arutz2 TV station is showing columns of infantry entering the Strip from the North, on foot.

El-Reuters has something about it too, and HaAretz as well as Ynet confirm.


 



Well, wasn't that nice of them. So polite to tell the enemy of their location.

 
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battar    Strategy page   1/3/2009 3:16:16 PM
I don't get it. It goes against all the rules of military strategy to go and do what you have openly been telling the other side for a week what you are going to do. Look at the USA in Desert Storm - spent 6 weeks telling the Iraquis they were about to invade Kuwait, then invaded Iraq. Look the D-Day- spent months keeping the other sdie guessing where and when, so in the end they guessed wrong. Obviously the other side are ready and waiting, I don't see them falling so fast.
Military rule #<n> - you cannot defeat an opponent who has full co-operation of the local civillian population.
If you ask me, I think the Israeli cabinet ran out of ideas before Hamas yelled for a cease fire. I hope I'm wrong.
 
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Shirrush       1/3/2009 4:23:35 PM

Obviously the other side are ready and waiting, I don't see them falling so fast.

Military rule #<n> - you cannot defeat an opponent who has full co-operation of the local civillian population.

If you ask me, I think the Israeli cabinet ran out of ideas before Hamas yelled for a cease fire. I hope I'm wrong.

What? Hasn't it been done before? Haven't you read any history before you pulled your "military rule #<n>" out of your takhat?
One thing is true though. Hama"s is the genuine expression of the political mindset of a large majority of 'Azatis. Therefore, Gaza must be defeated, just as nazi Germany, Napoleonian France (twice!), or Carthago were.
 It sure would be nice to have the cooperation of some part of the enemy's population such as was the case in Afghanistan, but this is certainly not a sine qua non condition for victory.
 

 
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swhitebull       1/3/2009 7:38:29 PM
[map.JPG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gnm2C1B8vbI/SV_vdhqAajI/AAAAAAAACag/Pd0EOlEVdPM/s1600/map.JPG" border="0" />
 
 
swhitebull
 
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jastayme3       1/3/2009 7:49:13 PM




Obviously the other side are ready and waiting, I don't see them falling so fast.



Military rule #<n> - you cannot defeat an opponent who has full co-operation of the local civillian population.



If you ask me, I think the Israeli cabinet ran out of ideas before Hamas yelled for a cease fire. I hope I'm wrong.




What? Hasn't it been done before? Haven't you read any history before you pulled your "military rule #<n>" out of your takhat?

One thing is true though. Hama"s is the genuine expression of the political mindset of a large majority of 'Azatis. Therefore, Gaza must be defeated, just as nazi Germany, Napoleonian France (twice!), or Carthago were.


 It sure would be nice to have the cooperation of some part of the enemy's population such as was the case in Afghanistan, but this is certainly not a sine qua non condition for victory.


 



Actually those are better examples of Battar's point. All three were eventually defeated because they faced enemies that were in fact willing to mobilize the entire population.
 
But the real military rule number one is that there is no such thing as "can't". The Boers were defeated, as were the Jacobite Highlanders. And in fact brought into such complete submission to their conquerors that they became a constructive part of their political system.  Or of course one can simply kill every thing in the region which Israel is technically capable of doing, which it won't do, but at least disproves "can't".
 
You can also simply arrest every known authority figure, ship them off somewhere, and then give their property to your chosen Quislings with the injunction that what was done once can be done twice. Grim work, that but the theoretical possibility disproves "can't".
 
In any case, I doubt that Israel really has any intention of subjugating the Palestinians; that is to much of a bother. It is probably more a "rubble makes less trouble" operation that it is hoped will keep things quiet for a while and will at least mess up the enemy's infrastructure.

 

 
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Ezekiel    Destroy the Islamist Terrorists   1/4/2009 12:55:41 AM
Whatever the endgame...the philidelphia corridor must be  in Israel's posession until there is a stable political situation...and only then can it be once again handed to the pale's.
 
God bless these warriors that fight for the Jewish state and enlightened democratic freedom.
 

 
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WarNerd    Ezekiel   1/4/2009 3:53:23 AM
Agreed, the Philadelphia Corridor must end up in Israeli hands ,or the whole operation is a bust. 
But in order to win Israel will also have to come up with a way to keep the smugglers from digging tunnels under it.
 
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swhitebull    Med-Dead Plan   1/4/2009 8:40:55 AM

Agreed, the Philadelphia Corridor must end up in Israeli hands ,or the whole operation is a bust. 


But in order to win Israel will also have to come up with a way to keep the smugglers from digging tunnels under it.


From blogger Muquta's blogsite:
I present, the modified Med-Dead project. The project proposal has been around for decades -- and in a nutshell is this. A waterway canal is dug from the Mediterranean Sea (sea level), eastwards across Israel to the Dead Sea (420 metres (1378 ft) below sea level, and its shores are the lowest point on the surface of the Earth on dry land.)

This would accomplish the following:

1. Start refilling the Dead Sea, which is evaporating away year by year.
2. Provide for a water desalination plant -- desperately needed water sources for the region.
3. Create thousands of jobs.
4. All for Creation of a hydroelectric generation plant, (the 420 water drop is perfect for hydrop electric generation) -- clean, green, energy.

The Muqata's plan goes one step forward. We propose that the initial water channel from the Medeterannean Sea start not on the Israeli shoreline, but on the Gaza shoreline at its southernmost point. By carving out a 500 meter wide channel for this waterway, it would be virtually impossible for underground tunnels to be built for arms smuggling.

5. Prevention of arms smuggling to Gaza.

Seeing that this is a win-win-win solution for the entire region, I would expect the UN and EU support it fully.

Yet somehow, I doubt it...
 
 
 
swhitebull -  he is liveblogging at http://muqata.blogspot.com/
 
 
My alteration is to make it about 100 m deep (yeah  i know not too feasible but its my dream plan), filled with all kinds of sharks and stuff like search and destroy mines tethered to the bottom with lots and lots of cameras, on the israeli side a totally smooth  wall manned by lasers 100 feet high), and the walls plastered with little smiley faces that read "have a nice day" !!!

 
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battar    There is an Island   1/4/2009 2:29:16 PM
Better yet - dig the canal not just to the south but also to the north and east of the strip, give the whole thing a push, and create a new Island in the Mediterranian.
The cartoonist Dry Bones had a similar idea 30 + years ago. He suggested building a canal from the Med to the Dead, drilling holes in the Sinai, and having the whole thing sink.
The might be some technical flaws in both ideas.
 
I can't think of any example where a guerrilla, or terrorist organization, operating with the co-operation of the local population, was ever defeated by a standing army. History has shown that "installed" regimes are usually temporary. I don't think you can negotiate reasonably with anyone who believes that "God is on His side". I did see on the news one Gaza woman cursing Israel and (Fatah leader) Mahmoud Abbas in the same breath, which means they no longer know which way is up.
 
 
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