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Subject: Israel Takes Delivery of 2 German-Built U212 Subs
Nasty German Idiot     9/30/2009 8:52:49 AM
Israel Takes Delivery of 2 German-Built U212 Subs AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE Published: 29 Sep 2009 11:45 Print | Email JERUSALEM - Israel has taken delivery of two German-built submarines, a military spokesman said Sept. 29. "We have received two Dolphin-class submarines," he said on condition of anonymity. The submarines, called U212s, can launch cruise missiles carrying nuclear warheads, although when it confirmed the sale in 2006 the German government said the two vessels were not equipped to carry nuclear weapons. Delivery was initially expected in 2010. Including the new subs, Israel has five German submarines - the most expensive weapon platforms in Israel's arsenal. Germany, which believes it has a historic responsibility to help Israel because of the Holocaust, donated the first two submarines after the 1991 Gulf War. It split the cost of the third. According to Jane's Defence Weekly, the U212s are designed for a crew of 35, have a range of 2,810 miles and can launch cruise missiles carrying nuclear warheads. Israeli media have written that the Dolphin submarine could be key in any attack on Iran's controversial nuclear sites. An Israeli submarine recently used the Suez Canal for the first time in June, escorted by Egyptian navy vessels, in what Israeli media said was intended as a message to Iran. Widely considered the Middle East's sole, if undeclared, nuclear power, Israel suspects Iran of trying to develop atomic weapons under the guise of a civilian nuclear program, a charge Tehran denies. XXXttp://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4299455&c=MID&s=SEA
 
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Ezekiel    more options   9/30/2009 10:26:09 AM
This will allow for 2nd sub to engage Iran...this will also provide for far greater operational flexibility and firepower in engaging the Iranian nuclear threat.
 
Quite simply these two subs is a huge addition in terms of Israel's strategic defense posture vis a vis Iran.
 
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Shirrush       9/30/2009 11:23:22 AM
AFAIU, these two boats have not entered service, nor have they reached their homeport in Israel.
What this AFP (Agence France-Palestine) snippet probably means is  that  the subs are undergoing sea/ acceptance trials in the cold, gray Nordsee with mixed  manufacturer-customer crews.
The Israeli media have not latched onto this story as of today @ 17:00, and since they are generally cautious about defense matters, this story could be no more than a canard.
If anything, Ezekiel, you should start worrying about the known quality issues with this manufacturer, instead of automatically puff up with the flag-waving and all that.
 
"Once the Papanikolis? sea trials began in 2006, however, the Hellenic Navy found a host of issues with the new submarine. Poor performance from the AIP system that supplements its diesel engines for long underwater operations, problems with the ISUS combat system, poor surface seakeeping in high seas, and hydraulic system issues were among the major flaws reported. The Navy refused acceptance, leaving HDW to fix the boat.

HDW set to work on Papanikolis, but the submarine has been docked in Kiel since 2006 waiting for Greek acceptance. HDW says acceptance is now justified, as the defects have been fixed, but the Greek government refuses to accept the boat. It has raised other issues, such as the ad-hoc nature of several required modifications to avoid disassembling the boat, the number of sea trials that have consumed some of the onboard equipment?s operational life ? and one rather more traditional reservation, which is not expressed but plays a role. Sailors are famously superstitious, and Papanikolis? tribulations have given it a reputation as an unlucky boat.

Meanwhile, the other 3 submarines are reportedly complete now, or very close to it. Pipinos was launched in April 2007, Matrozos followed in 2008, and Katsonis was launched at the end of 2008. None of them have been accepted, either."

 
GFAust, what say you?
 
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Ezekiel       9/30/2009 3:19:22 PM
Alright shirrush I should have prefaced my above remarks with.....if this story is true, then.
 
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battar    Not for a while   9/30/2009 3:41:56 PM
Fitting out, sea trials, acceptance tests, training... you won't see these boats operational for a long time yet. In the mean time I can imagine quite a few Navy personnel are eating German frankfurters on trips to Germany to oversee/liase/study the new systems. When the first 3 Dolphin subs were under construction, us maintenance folk were always going back and forth.
As for potential problems... a modern submarine is so incredibly complex (makes a Boeing 777 look like Lego) that there is usually only one day a year when very single system onboard is operating without fault.
 
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Ezekiel    maybe   10/1/2009 5:49:29 AM
 
maybe, maybe not
 
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