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Subject: The Phoenix Missile
god of war    6/10/2003 9:10:43 AM
Is the 30 year old Phoenix missile outdated? Is the purpose for it gone? Can you count on the AWACS's judgement that the planes a bogy? (With the idiot Americans, a friendly fire kill on an airliner would make us probably pull out of the war.) and... Can the SU-37 out manuver the Phoenix?
 
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Thomas    RE:the Phoenix missile   6/11/2003 4:15:23 AM
The Phoenix was made to sprint upward immediately after launch cruise in the thin air and dive down on the target at the end of the long, long run. Without having access to testfirings, I would say this only works with a comparatively slow non-manoevring target - as a highflying bomber.
 
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Heorot    RE:the phenox missle   6/11/2003 7:25:59 AM
The latest version was updated in 1993 to make it less vulnerable to ECM. Doesn't solve the maneuvability problem though.
 
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Horse Soldier    RE:the phenox missle   6/11/2003 7:34:48 AM
Phoenix was designed for fleet defense -- like Thomas noted it's supposed to kill things like Bear and Backfire bombers. Unless I'm mistaken, the Pheonix is going out of service with the F-14 whenever it finally retires. Don't think the latest version of the F-18 which will replace the F-14 carries the Pheonix. Both the missile and the threat it counters appear to be a bit dated just now.
 
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god of war    RE:the phenox missle   6/11/2003 8:17:34 AM
the threat is illistrated in the tom clancy novel, red storm rising, my personal favorite of his books. in it, a lot of russian bombers attack a us carrier.
 
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god of war    RE:the phenox missle   6/11/2003 8:19:11 AM
and that post had no point, so sorry. anyway, i think the need for long range air to air missles has diminished greatly. You don't hear much about chinese, lybian, syrian, and north korean bombers.
 
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Thomas    RE:the phenox missle   6/11/2003 8:42:00 AM
I would say the bomber threat of the cold war is dated; but: Aircraft range is ultimately a function of specific fuel consumption of the engine - quite much in fact (the germans used DIESEL engines on some of their aircraft) - sfc keeps crawling down. This will eventually mean that low level attacks become a danger to carriers. During the cold war, the carriers defended themselves in the Mid-Atlantic, now they approach the coast closer. Which cuts down bomber range requirement or necessitates tankers. As written elsewhere: There is a definite tanker/escort requirement in the future for long - long - range missiles. Perhaps an updated version of the Phoenix????
 
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god of war    RE:the phenox missle   6/11/2003 8:48:43 AM
about the german planes you speak of... If they were from WW2, it would make sense. With all of their fuel shortages, you would need a dissel.
 
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Thomas    RE: God of war   6/11/2003 9:01:09 AM
They were; but the primary reason seems to be the range requirement, as they didn't have good bomber engines - it takes a long range to justify the added weight of a diesel.
 
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Red Star v.2    RE: God of war   6/18/2003 12:16:23 PM
Phoenix was a good missile with xcellent range, but is dated now
 
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Hellfire    RE: God of war   7/7/2003 6:41:35 PM
Maybe it would be worth upgrading them. The range is still there, and there is plenty of room for electronics. The F-22 could carry them externally and fire them first from long range - before they're detected. The advantage of surprise would compensate for the lack of manoeuvrability.
 
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