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Subject: U.S. hails airborne laser as weapons milestone
EW3    10/27/2006 5:48:10 PM
not without Reuters adding a few editorials to the story - but at least the role out of the airborne laser aircraft.

U.S. hails airborne laser as weapons milestone
Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:18 PM ET



By Jim Wolf

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The head of the Pentagon's Missile Defense Agency on Friday hailed what he described as epochal progress toward putting a high-energy laser aboard a modified Boeing Co. 747 to zap ballistic missiles that could be fired by North Korea and Iran.

But the Pentagon's former top weapons tester cast doubt on project, calling it far from militarily effective and perhaps easily defeated by a simple countermeasure.

The so-called Airborne Laser has been developed at a cost so far of about $3.5 billion with the aim of destroying, at the speed of light, all classes of ballistic missiles shortly after their launch. If successful in flight testing and deployed, it would become part of an emerging U.S. anti-missile shield that also includes land- and sea-based interceptor missiles.

"You've demonstrated capability on the ground," Air Force Lt. Gen. Henry Obering said at a ceremony at which the aircraft was rolled out of a Wichita, Kansas, hangar where it has been undergoing modifications.

"Not since that time nearly twenty-two hundred years ago, when Archimedes reflected the sun's rays to set the Roman fleet on fire off Syracuse, has the world seen a weapon that puts fresh meaning into the phrase 'in real time'."

"Let's do it now in flight," Obering told employees of Boeing, the prime contractor, and chief subcontractors Lockheed Martin Corp. and Northrop Grumman Corp. at the event.

Philip Coyle, the Pentagon's chief weapons tester under former President Bill Clinton and now at the private Center for Defense Information, said in an e-mail reply to Reuters that its real effectiveness appeared doubtful.

"If a laser can be developed with enough power to penetrate the atmosphere and still be lethal once it reaches a target, an enemy would only need to put a reflective coating on the outside of its missiles to bounce off the laser beam, making it harmless," he said.

"The Romans could have done the same thing in the myth about Archimedes. Any grade schooler knows that you can set a dry leaf on fire with a magnifying glass. The challenge is to achieve militarily effective damage," he added.

Neither Boeing nor the Missile Defense Agency responded immediately to an offer to rebut Coyle's comments.

 
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jessmo_24       10/28/2006 2:48:55 AM
How do you make reflective mirrors survive reentry?
 
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reefdiver       10/29/2006 11:14:37 PM

"If a laser can be developed with enough power to penetrate the atmosphere and still be lethal once it reaches a target, an enemy would only need to put a reflective coating on the outside of its missiles to bounce off the laser beam, making it harmless," he said. 
      
Primary target for the ABL will  be the fuel tanks during boost phase and not the warhead. Thus they'll have to perfectly mirror the whole missile.  If you don't want the mirrored surface to heat up - very rapidly - it will also have to be very, very clean. And dirt, debris, or smoke soot from launch could be fatal.  Should be interesting to see if that can be reliably done. 
 
Hey - if they do somehow protect against ABL with mirrors or ablatives - both of which incidently may add significant weight - then I guess you'd have to start using ABL to fry aircraft, trucks, SAM sites, maybe any unmirrored SAM's that get launched at the ABL, and finally for toasting the odd infantry division from 100km.
 
Perhaps you could also just use the laser for tracking and fire a (hypersonic?) laser guided missile at the the beam's target.
 
If nothing else, the ABL might make an opponent believe their entire tactical BM fleet is obsolete and they have to buy the new "mirrored" version. Thats worth something in itself. It could be good for Russia's business as well as they'd sell updated missiles to everyone. Its a US-Russian conspiracy I tell you...
 
 


 
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EW3       10/29/2006 11:31:12 PM
 
I have a hunch that the 747 version ABL is a prototype for a future space based system.  Much easier to debug and test when the laser system can be put in the hangar after each test.  Once is space...
While this system has merits in it's own right, imagine the same system in GEO orbit over Taiwan.  It could reach out and touch most missiles in that part of the world during their assent phase or at least by midflight.
 
 
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reefdiver       10/30/2006 8:14:02 AM

 

I have a hunch that the 747 version ABL is a prototype for a future space based system.  Much easier to debug and test when the laser system can be put in the hangar after each test.  Once is space...

While this system has merits in it's own right, imagine the same system in GEO orbit over Taiwan.  It could reach out and touch most missiles in that part of the world during their assent phase or at least by midflight.

 


Don't know if you noticed the researcher at the Air Force Academy (I don't recall the link) who is working on a new non-glass unfoldable telescope "lens" that he claims could be made large enough to read a newspaper from geosynchronous orbit. I think the guy was talking about his "lens" being a hundred feet in diameter or larger. From GS orbit you could monitor an area 24hrs a day. Combine that as the targeting mechanism for a space based laser with automatic image processing search algorithms and you could know in advance where all the missiles are. You could track their movement. Then you could take them out at the first sign of smoke from the launchers. You could even identify and fry all of Kim's look-alikes...and then there's always people like OBL.
Only problem with the laser - I believe it takes something like 3 or 4 seconds to destroy a missile, so it could be overwhelmed unless you have a bunch of them..

 
 
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reefdiver    Telescope link   10/30/2006 8:31:48 AM
link
www.gazette.com/display.php?id=1325576&secid=1
 
Link to the USAF Academy researcher's telescope project. He's suggesting a telescope 60ft in diameter.
 
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Heorot    Re Mirrors.   11/5/2006 8:51:01 AM
You don't need mirrors  to reflact the energy. All you need to do is spin your missile slightly. This prevents the laser from getting its 2-3 secs on target because the focus point will be constantly changing, Instead of putting its energy into a point the diameter of the beam, it is now putting that energy into a target area the size of the beam diameter times the circumference of the missile. This is compounded by the impossibility of holding the beam for that 2-3 seconds precisely on the same point of the target.

A few years ago, I saw a film of a test of an airborne laser firing at a drone. The drone was painted red (to absorb the maximum amount of  laser energy) and flying slowly and dead level. You could see the laser on the target airframe; the whole airframe, not a small spot. After about 10 seconds the target blew apart spectacularly; it was clear that some kind of explosive had been set off. It was clear from that test that the crucial issue was keeping the laser on a single spot on the target.

Now I' m pretty sure that, with modern fast processors, keeping the beam on target is less of a problem. The thing is, that we are now talking about keeping that beam on a missile travelling at high mach numbers and probably a high angle to the firer. It won't be painted red and flying nicely straight and level. This is a whole new level of difficulty.




 
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EW3       11/5/2006 9:06:10 AM
This prevents the laser from getting its 2-3 secs on target because the focus point will be constantly changing,
 
That's a common misconception.  The laser delivers it's punch in very short burst < 100ms.   Unless the rotation speed is high or the diameter is very large, rotation won't help as much as most people think.  Blame it on star wars movies. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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kensohaski       11/5/2006 10:16:01 AM

This prevents the laser from getting its 2-3 secs on target because the focus point will be constantly changing,

 

That's a common misconception.  The laser delivers it's punch in very short burst < 100ms.   Unless the rotation speed is high or the diameter is very large, rotation won't help as much as most people think.  Blame it on star wars movies. 

 

 Indeed...  While I am not up to speed on ABL, Dr. Teller was!  He stated in an interview that I saw 20 years ago that these things can and will work.  I will take his word for it...

 

 

 



 
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