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Subject: top short range AAM
scuttlebut steve    2/12/2007 9:11:42 PM
what is the top short range AAM? Aim-9x, Aim-132 ASRAAM, IRIS-T, AA-11(Vympel R-73), something else?
 
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Herald1234       2/12/2007 9:36:00 PM

what is the top short range AAM? Aim-9x, Aim-132 ASRAAM, IRIS-T, AA-11(Vympel R-73), something else?
IRIS T shows a lot of promise and the R-73 is a very good one. Don't know anything about ASRAAM, but if BAE had anything to do with it, it should be a good one.

Herald

 
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scuttlebut steve    regarding ASRAAM   2/12/2007 9:55:51 PM
from what i can find, AIM9x, AA-11, and IRIS-T emphasize maneuverability while ASRAAM emphasizes very high speed with limited maneuvering, which is why the US and Germany pulled out of ASRAAM project and developed their own. 
 
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Yimmy       2/12/2007 10:39:48 PM
Going by combat record, I think the American Sidewinder (the current most modern varient before AIM-9-X), and the Israeli Python (I think the newest is Python 4 or 5).
 
As far as "bang for the buck", I think these are the best, followed by the Russian AA-11.
 
I am sure all of the Western missiles in development and early fielding now, such as AIM-9-X, IRIS-T and ASRAAM are all excellent, but expensive and unproven.
 
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AussieEngineer       2/22/2007 4:32:55 AM
Although unproven you can be certain that they will be better than the last generation
 
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flamingknives       2/22/2007 1:43:26 PM
The ASRAAM, apparently, will pull 50g off the rail, which it pretty agile. I did hear something along the lines that AIM-9X, when trying to pull the same maneuver, snapped in two. But I can't verify that.

The ASRAAM is certainly optimised to give an amount of range overlap with the AMRAAM, but it is very agile and quite capable of over-the-shoulder shots.
 
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ya2       3/11/2007 12:01:04 PM
in the last war in lebannon python 5 was the first ever to shoot down an UAV
it can be shot 360* meaning even if a jet is on your back you can still win.
 
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Bluewings12       3/30/2007 9:43:54 AM
""what is the top short range AAM?""

MICA IR (60km+ , 50g+ , 360deg) .

Cheers .
 
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Mechanic       3/30/2007 11:54:54 AM
ASRAAM is clearly "long range short range" missile and little more better at short range than MICA IR but with shorter range.

AIM-9X is the king of the hill at short range,

Python 4 have the best ability to engage targets with aspect angle near 0 at very short range. Ie firing target coming at 12 o'clock at very short range, so that the missile have to turn 180 degrees to hit. The best no-IIR seeker. (Sorry no info for Python 5)

R-73V is the cheapest better than 9M missile.

Iris-T is an option.

Based an anonymous but creditable first hand source.

 
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flamingknives       3/30/2007 1:00:28 PM
Any chance of a reason for any of that, mechanic?

Or should we just accept it as gospel and never question anything that places anything not american in number one spot again?
 
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Mechanic       3/30/2007 1:33:43 PM

Any chance of a reason for any of that, mechanic?

Or should we just accept it as gospel and never question anything that places anything not american in number one spot again?

Of course there is a logic (But not neccesery the truth). Do you have a counter argument as base of  a debate?
 
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Bluewings12       3/30/2007 2:06:44 PM
Mecanic :
""ASRAAM is clearly "long range short range" missile and little more better at short range than MICA IR""
""
AIM-9X is the king of the hill at short range""

Where did you get that crap ?


Cheers .
 
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Herald1234    ?????????????????????   3/30/2007 2:24:37 PM

Mecanic :

""ASRAAM is clearly "long range short range" missile and little more better at short range than MICA IR""

""
AIM-9X is the king of the hill at short range""



Where did you get that crap ?





Cheers .



From a better source than you did with MICA, BW. 360 degree aspect? Beyond 10 kilometer IR seeker acquisittion without radar updating?  Who are you trying to kid? Not me, I hope.
 
Mechanic, if you have some good unclassified source on ASRAAM I would be interested. I really don't know that much about the missile. I am curious. 
 
Herald
 
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Mechanic       3/30/2007 2:25:57 PM

Mecanic :

""ASRAAM is clearly "long range short range" missile and little more better at short range than MICA IR""

""
AIM-9X is the king of the hill at short range""



Where did you get that crap ?





Cheers .

Please be more specific.

ASRAAM is designed for long range shot. LOAL mode and published max range figures support that. It's also almost wingless giving up some mid range manouverability but gaining some range. Mica suffers from higher launch weight at short range.

AIM-9X's superioirity is not so easy to prove, but the considering the previous paragraph it has goos chane to to be better than Mica or ASRAAM at closer range. Part of the superioirity  is the optimal weight and wing design and superior seekker compared to Python 4.

And remember we are not speaking differencies that define the winner of a merge, but minor differencies of modern high performance missiles.
 
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Herald1234    Mechanic reply;   3/30/2007 3:04:49 PM



Mecanic :


""ASRAAM is clearly "long range short range" missile and little more better at short range than MICA IR""


""
AIM-9X is the king of the hill at short range""





Where did you get that crap ?








Cheers .



Please be more specific.

ASRAAM is designed for long range shot. LOAL mode and published max range figures support that. It's also almost wingless giving up some mid range manouverability but gaining some range. Mica suffers from higher launch weight at short range.

AIM-9X's superioirity is not so easy to prove, but the considering the previous paragraph it has good chance to to be better than Mica or ASRAAM at closer range. Part of the superioirity  is the optimal weight and wing design and superior seeker compared to Python 4.

And remember we are not speaking differencies that define the winner of a merge, but minor differencies of modern high performance missiles.

 
I think I would have said mass distribution along the aeroshell cg vector line instead of weight  when discussing the AIM 9X, but I understand what you meant perfectly. 

Thank you.
 
Herald

 
 
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Bluewings12       4/2/2007 6:30:58 AM
""From a better source than you did with MICA, BW""

Source MICA : its manufacturer :
h*tp://www.mbda-systems.com/mbda/site/FO/scripts/siteFO_contenu.php?lang=EN&noeu_id=124
Not good enough for you Herald ?

""
360 degree aspect? Beyond 10 kilometer IR seeker acquisittion without radar updating?  Who are you trying to kid? Not me, I hope.""

I kid no-one . MICA has 360* capability , LOL , LOAL . From the pilots themselves , the IR seeker of MAGIC 2 can lock at 30km , so expect even better performance from MICA .
Btw , do AIM-9X has thrust vectoring ?
No , but MICA has .
Max speed AIM-9X : Mach 2.5
MICA : Mach 4.5

MICA has a mass of 112kg , AIM-9x is only 85kg , but MICA 's thrust is far superior and its acceleration off the rail is better . Max speed is reached after 5s .

I cannot see where the AIM-9X is superior ...

Cheers .
 
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