couldnt they put such a system on the side of an AFV turret?

APKWS, DAGR, LOGIR, Kongsberg's attempts in addition to these few here in the US, and certainly it won't be the last program we see (quite feasible someone will come along and develop a guidance kit for the Russian 57mm series, which could make those 32-round pods carried by Hinds, Hips, and others quite formidable).

 

As for an AFV-mounted system, that's to be expected eventually. But how and in what final form remains to be seen.

The longest-ranged Hydra-70 types are 4 feet long or more.

TOWs seem to be able to be manhandled and loaded from within the confines of a Bradley, and encased TOWs are about 4&1/2 feet long themselves.

So unless there is ample space inside a vehicle, don't count on the longer ranged rockets to be part of a given AFV's reloadable-under-armor inventory.

We might be further off developing the guidance system to fit shorter rockets, similar to those old Mighty Mouse used on several USAF fighters during the 1950s era. If we can keep the missile aerodynamically balanced (not front heavy or rear heavy which would require a strong actuator system to compensate), and since all we'd really be looking for in an AFV armament would be line-of-sight systems, even a 3-4km round would be fine. That gives us the same ranges we can achieve with TOWs and other heavy ATGMs, but hopefully without the expense or storage restrictions (can I carry 3-4 DAGR types in the same space as 1 encased TOW?).

 

What are we intending to use it for exactly?

Anti armor work, especially with the latest reactive and composite armors, dictates a large diameter warhead that 70mm just doesn't offer, except versus APCs, IFVs, SPGs, and the like.

Close support general purpose work (HE support) would then be the most likely scenario, but there again are those proponents and antagonists at each other's throats,

one side suggesting, "we in the US will have Stryker MGS, PGMM, Excalibur, Javelin, and M1s doing direct fire support, why procure a new system unless it's guaranteed to be a cheaper alternative?",

yet the other side suggests, "this (ideally) would be cheaper than TOWs, Hellfires, Excaliburs, and AFVs with big guns".

 

Proving it'll work isn't the issue.

Getting the support to actually procure it and mount it in sufficient platforms is the problem.

Could we eventually see something akin to the WW2 T34 Calliope rocket projector often depicted on Shermans?

This would allow a sizeable offensive or defensive precision element for a number of purposes.

Would it be that difficult then to also envision the possibility that some group of egghead engineers realizes this isn't all that different from a certain naval concept, and suggests a quad round cell that can be installed into a NetFires CLU in place of a single PAM cell? Theoretically, there's then the potential of 60 DAGRs at the ready instead of 15 PAMs...

Mounted in the back of any tactical truck, all that would be needed for quick, close-range suppressive fire would be a designator unit and datalink to the CLU.

 

There have been numerous AFVs thru the last few decades depicting 2.75" rocket pods strapped to them (the 7 round cylinders being the norm). A PGM to be fired from them is an obvious evolutionary step, and actually justifies even putting the rocket pods onto an AFV: why saturate an area with no guaratee you'll even hit the target you wanted to eliminate, when you can now precisely tag it with only a few rockets instead of a whole barrage?

 

Well, the system in question (DAGR) is a bolt-on kit for existing rockets, and uses the Apache's existing guidance system.  Seems like the application in close support is pretty obvious, and it's definitely cheaper than Hellfires since we have untold numbers of those rockets in inventory already.

I would love to see this on MQ-1 and MQ-9s. It would allow them to exploit their endurance more with 14 to 38 guided rockets.

 

-DA

I'm guessing from the mention of a "fopur-pack launcher" compatible with the Hellfire launcher and how it can increase the load-out by up to four times that this missile has a unique launch pod, and does not use the old seven- and nineteen-shot pods.  It sounds to me like something similar to the Patriot PAC3 and the S-400 whee four small missiles fit in one pod in place of one bigger missile (the Hellfire) on each of the rails of the Hellfire's traditional four-rail launcher.  So a maximum loadout on an AH-64 would be 64 DAGR instead of 16 Hellfire.

 

...but it's still a fair bet then that those 64 precision guided 2.75" rockets are going to hit a lot closer to where they were aimed as compared to a salvo of 76 unguided rockets (4 pods @ 19 rounds each).

 

Are those several extra kilos of explosive going to be missed if we can precisely hit a target instead of just volley-firing to saturate the area around it and hope for the best?

I think it sounds like an outstanding weapon, far superior to unguided alternatives.  Against lightly-armored vehicles right up to infantry combat vehicles it's 64 kills instead of 16.  It's crazy.  Helicopter sorties will be like fighter sorties where there's no reasonable scenarios where the aircraft would actually run out of ammo.  It will be much more likely that the aircraft, whether F-22 with six AIM-120C and two AIM-9M or AH-64 with maybe eight Hellfire and 32 DAGR will be out of gas and/or out of targets long before it's out of ammo.

The U.S. Army is looking into putting these weapons on the MQ-8B. It will have the endurace to potentially use a lot of that ammo and do the BDA! DJim I hope you guys put it on your MQ-9 and MQ-1...;) This will do for the UAS community what the SDB is doing for the fixed wing manned community.

 

-DA

Awesome weapon for the reapers. Imagine hovering over Iraq zapping  IED teams with these little rockets.

I'm sure the weapons are quite powerful enough to tag a technical (regular pickup with a gun mounted in the bed) or light up a couple guys setting up a mortar or rocket position.

 

 

Depending whose rocket motors and warhead configurations are used, the 70mm weapons can range as far as 12km ground launched (coming from a personal fave of mine, the Brazilian AVIBRAS Skyfire 70 system) or up to 15km air launched (this could be more, depending on launch altitude), with warheads of just as many types as any arillery shells (monobloc HE, continuous rod, flechette, smoke, HEDP, submunition cluster, shrapnel cannister/buckshot), weighing up to 7kg.

 

I'm going to assume that, if DAGR is a bolt-on kit (like is done with free-fall dumb bombs to make them JDAMs), that it'll fit any nation's given preferred rocket in 70mm.

I'm also wondering if it's compatible with the French (sorry, DA) 68mm SNEB series (I wonder if NEXTER/GIAT is slipping on this market, too).

 

Kongsberg's APKWS variant can be seen here over at Defense-Update.Com link

This link is to the same article that Phaid referenced at the top of the thread, but this one has a picture.  I hope the Army buys a whole lot of these as soon as possible.

 

link

We would be able to DRASTICALLY cut down on HELLFIRE shots with these and get 4 times the weapons endurance. You could also put them on your Predator and Reapers.

 

-DA