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Subject: Boeing Gets First Small Diameter Bomb Order
EW3    4/22/2005 10:40:29 PM
(B-2 can carry 160 of these puppies.)

Boeing Gets First Small Diameter Bomb Order By Jim Wolf

Boeing Co. on Friday received the first U.S. Air Force order for a production batch of the Small Diameter Bomb, which exploded into the news this year because of a challenge from Lockheed Martin Corp. .

Under an $18.5 million contract announced by the Defense Department, Boeing said it would produce 201 of the winged 250-pound bombs that may be released 60 miles from their targets.

The contract also includes 35 carriages to carry the precision 7.5-inch-diameter weapon, first to be mounted on the Boeing F-15E Strike Eagle in 2006.

Chicago-based Boeing has projected the overall program could be worth as much as $2.7 billion, including development and future orders.

Lockheed, based in Bethesda, Maryland, had argued that Boeing's victory over it for the initial development contract was tainted by Darleen Druyun, an ex-Air Force weapons buyer serving a nine-month prison term for a conflict-of-interest law violation.

Druyun admitted at her Oct. 1 sentencing to having steered billions of dollars in business to Boeing before taking a $250,000-a-year Boeing vice president's job in December 2002.

In a Feb. 18 decision, the Government Accountability Office, Congress's investigative arm, sustained Lockheed's protest. It found Druyun had played a role in a process that led to changes in the bomb's technical requirements and the deletion of related evaluation criteria.

The GAO recommended the Air Force conduct a competitive procurement for the program's second phase, worth an estimated $1.7 billion, which requires the bomb to hit moving targets in addition to fixed ones.

"Boeing is delivering exactly what the U.S. Air Force asked for," Boeing's program manager, Dan Jaspering, said after receiving the go ahead for low-rate initial production. "It's on cost and on schedule."

Douglas Karas, an Air Force spokesman, said Friday the Air Force had notified GAO this week that it was accepting its recommendation to hold a new competition for the project's second stage.

Referring to this, a Lockheed spokesman, Jeffery Adams, said, "We look forward to having the opportunity to compete for any future Small Diameter Bomb procurement."

from: link

 
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EW3    RE:Boeing Gets First Small Diameter Bomb Order   5/2/2005 2:00:59 AM
Got to wonder why this hasn't garnered any interest. Ths SDB just about doubled the killing capacity of every aircraft. Even the lowly Predator-B can carry 12 of these. Each with GPS targetting. The B-2 on the other hand will be able to carry 160 of them. Imagine one bomber taking out 160 targets in 1 mission. (granted a few will fail) Compare to GW1.
 
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VelocityVector    RE:Boeing Gets First Small Diameter Bomb Order   5/2/2005 2:10:15 AM
In response to: "Imagine one bomber taking out 160 targets in 1 mission." My only quibble is those '160 targets' will have to be mighty small in terms of footprint/shallowness/vulnerability. What we 'need' is a conventional placeholder tantamount to a scalable B-61 for that stow space, but then that's Sandia-USA for ya ... ;>] v^2
 
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EW3    RE:Boeing Gets First Small Diameter Bomb Order   5/2/2005 8:25:24 AM
The SDB can penetrate 6 feet of reinforced concrete. So that give you all kinds of poetential targets (runways, highways, piers, ships at piers, bridges, etc) With AMSTE it becomes a tank/vehicle killer, or if you use 2 or 3 a decent ship killer. A single one of these has the potential of disabling a frigate, 2 of them would definately put a frigate out of action. Same is true of ChiCom LSTs, and merchant ships.
 
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displacedjim    RE:Boeing Gets First Small Diameter Bomb Order   5/2/2005 11:45:54 AM
"A single one of these has the potential of disabling a frigate, 2 of them would definately put a frigate out of action." -- EW3 ---- I have definitely got to wonder how likely that will be. I'll go along with one has the potential; I suppose one has the potential of sinking a cruiser. But with what, I'm guessing about 50 pounds of explosive, I wonder how likely it will be that two will definitely put a frigate out of action (e.g., an equivalent to an FFG-7 Perry), or even less likely a trash hauler (transport ship of some sort) whose mission accomplishment isn't so vulnerable to a nasty shock or two. While I love the AMSTE possibilities, it does rely on offboard sensors being available so there can be some scenario-specific hiccups that will need to be dealt with. Stuff like keeping one or maybe a couple (depending on how many targets each can simultaneously pass tracking data for) JSTARS constantly in orbit within range with a line of sight to the target areas (remember Taiwan's 6000+ ft mountain range and the PLAN dropping ramps on the west side of the island, more or less), stuff like that. Nothing that can't be overcome with a bit of planning, but still not just automatic. I do enjoy the thought how a single B-2 could service pretty much every DMPI at an airfield, including every hardened aircraft shelter and revettment, the fuel and ammo storage bunkers, and every dispersal location as of perhaps the day before, right on through all the other targets, and right on down to the freaking local traffic control radar, the base's navagation radar beacon, and the automatic landing system. Leave the runway alone: less for us to repair when we start conducting ops from it next week! :-) Displacedjim
 
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EW3    RE:Boeing Gets First Small Diameter Bomb Order   5/2/2005 1:48:41 PM
Having served on a frigate size vessel, I've tried to think of a place where it could take a hit from one of these and not have big problems. Remember as it passes through deck plate it's creating shrapnel which causes damage. We had wires, power cables, air lines, water lines, steam lines, fuel lines, fuel storage, ammo critical equipment all over the place. Best I can come up with is the stern, which only had the steering gear in the aft steering room. It would be near impossible to find two spots that would not reduce our ability by 50% or more. LSTs are kinda strange, they have very few bulkeads, the core of the ship is the well deck where vehicles are stored. Hard to imagine an SDB going through an LST and not striking a truck or jeep or tank which would have fuel and ammo in them. Put 4 into the flight deck of a carrier and it's probably not doing flight ops for a while. The shrapnel and explosions from the flight deck would decimate the hangar deck. Ships are much more vulnerable than people think. Never though of not hitting the runway, but hitting everything else. Very clever. As to the JSTARS, as long as we protect them they should not be a problem. I wonder if it would be possible to use a GlobalHawk or two to do something similar or as radar sources for the AMSTE.
 
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displacedjim    RE:Boeing Gets First Small Diameter Bomb Order   5/2/2005 3:48:34 PM
EW3, these things are tiny as bombs go. I'm guessing they have the explosive power of an 8 inch artillery shell. A Harpoon has about ten times the amount of warhead. Even a moderately small missile like a Maverick has 1 1/2 or 2 1/2 times as much explosive, depending on the warhead (heavy or light, respectively). WWII destroyers sometimes took multiple kamikaze hits and kept fighting, so I just can't see depending on only one or two of these tiny bombs to reliably, repeatedly put a frigate out of commission, and destroyers and above certainly not. Cratering runways typically can only be counted on to put out of action for as little as less than one day that stretch of runway that the hole is in, if the enemy really wants to get it back in operation. It's potentially only a short-term solution that could require revisiting the target on multiple occasions to keep it holed. Of course putting 160 holes in the runways/taxiways instead of blowing up all the aircraft could work, too, but they may need only to fill a couple of them to be able to conduct air ops again. In general I'd say it's better to nail the assets at the base rather than the runways themselves, but with 160 bombs you could afford to spread the explosive wealth around and do both. Displacedjim
 
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westwords2020    RE:Boeing Gets First Small Diameter Bomb Order   5/2/2005 4:15:08 PM
At one time a Land Phlanx was proposed along with 40mm fast forty land variant. Couldn't a land based gun CIWS shoot down SDBs attacking a high value target like comm center or command post?
 
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EW3    RE:Boeing Gets First Small Diameter Bomb Order   5/3/2005 12:09:12 AM
WW- If they could do that, it would be able to shoot down more than just SDBs. DJ - The reason this would do damage to a ship is due to penetration. It's like an armor piercing round on steroids. This thing would easily penetrate 2 decks or more of a ship, in the process breaking interior systems. The actual detonation damage depends where it stops, if it's a fuel or ammo or VLS cell, it's a major mess. If it's in a space like CIC, Radio Room, Fire control etc, you take the ship out of action for quite a while. Ships have a lot of weakpoints, and few if any duplicate spaces, a backup CIC for example. I know things have changed, but in the case of my FF 1 round would have wiped out CIC and the sonar room. The ship would have been useless. A second round adds to the probability of a hitting something important. Bigger ships like AB and Tics would require multiple hits. But if even one hits a fuel tank, ammo, VLS space engineering space it's a major mess.
 
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doggtag    speaking of ships taking damage...   5/5/2005 1:29:05 PM
Has anyone heard anything on the fate of the carrier America? Did the "tests" start yet (scheduled for April?), and if so, has anyone here heard anything on how well she is or isn't faring?
 
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blacksmith    RE:speaking of ships taking damage...   5/5/2005 11:08:28 PM
An interesting lesson of what bombs do to carriers can be learned by studying the cases of the Oriskany, Forrestall and Enterprise that all had major fires and explosions on their flight decks. Just saw the Enterprise's story a couple nights back on History Channel. She had multiple 500 lb bombs blow up on deck augmented with thousands of gallons of JP-5. It was a mess, there were big holes in the deck and fixed wing air ops were out of the question. But she pulled into Pearl and was back in action in fifty some-odd days.
 
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EW3    RE:Boeing Gets First Small Diameter Bomb Order -Update   6/1/2005 12:48:16 PM
"At 71 inches long, this 250-pound weapon quadruples the weapons load on each aircraft." Just damn! ST. LOUIS, June 1, 2005 ? In the first of two flight tests this month, a Boeing [NYSE:BA] Small Diameter Bomb (SDB) flew more than 55 miles from an altitude of 30,000 feet, hitting within 34 inches of its planned impact point on a target barge in the Gulf of Mexico. It was the longest flight to date, and typical of the accuracy provided by the Small Diameter Bomb system. On average, the SDB has hit 42 inches from its targeted impact point. The May 11 test, near Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., was the first since the U.S. Air Force's decision in April to begin low-rate initial production of 201 SDBs. It was followed by a second successful test at the White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico. For the second test, a U.S. Air Force F-15E released an SDB May 26 from 28,600 feet, approximately 35 miles from its planned impact point on a target board. The test employed GPS ?jamming?, to significantly degrade accuracy by denying or preventing the GPS signal from reaching the weapon. The Anti-Jam system on the SDB rejected the interference and the weapon maintained its intended glide path, hitting within seven feet of the target, giving the SDB an unprecedented development test record of 23 successful flight tests out of 25 attempts. ?In April, our leadership showed their confidence in SDB by approving our entry into low rate initial production, based on meeting our commitments and reducing risk with an aggressive test program,? said Rich Walley, Air Armament Center's Miniature Munitions Systems Group deputy director. ?We are very pleased that the SDB continues to prove itself with successful flight tests.? The all-weather SDB weapon system holds four SDBs and is compatible with every U.S. fighter and bomber aircraft. It has a standoff range of 60 nautical miles. At 71 inches long, this 250-pound weapon quadruples the weapons load on each aircraft. The SDB will first be deployed on the Boeing F-15E Strike Eagle in 2006. From: link
 
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gixxxerking    Are you kidding?   6/1/2005 7:02:55 PM
The HMS Sheffield was sunk by an exocet that FAILED to explode. Imagine a 50lbs warhead EXPLODING INSIDE a ship. Think of this scenario. A pair of B-2 bombers unescorted could release more SDB from standoff than any SAG has SAMs to destroy. I think that its not far fetched to imagine the entire enemy battle/amphib group being sunk in a single pass. You can substitute all but the most hardened target a get the same results. Talk about firepower!
 
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EW3    RE:Are you kidding? - gixxx   6/1/2005 7:15:55 PM
Having served on a 3000ton frigate, I've thought about this. I will give it a 50% chance that 1 SDB would not cripple it for combat. The next one is making the odds somewhere between slim and none, and slim left town. Ships are loaded with piping, electrical systems, fuel systems, ammunition stores etc. I used to sleep above the 3"/50 ammo locker for the forward gun and under the ASROC launcher. I know if an SDB hit my rack it would blow the front third of the ship off.
 
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gixxxerking    RE:Are you kidding? - EW3   6/1/2005 7:26:34 PM
Yes I agree. Even this miniscule warhead will wreak havoc in the cluttered confines of a modern warship FFG/DDG or even CG Size. And you can be sure the ship will get the attention of multiple SDBs.
 
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displacedjim    RE:Are you kidding?   6/1/2005 8:43:26 PM
Wow! SDB is awesome, the range (I didn't realize that apparently all of them are equipped with wings like mini-JSOWs) and the accuracy are phenomenal. One thing about the accuracy is the ever-increasing need for good geodesic intel support to the warfighter and high fidelity DTED-3 (I think that's the right acronym) map data--or else our ever-favorite AMSTE program and E-8 JSTARS support. There's no question that even just one B-2 dropping a full load of these babies could put out of action many dozens of warships, or with a more focused approach sink a bunch of them. However, it is clear from a historical perspective that 285 pound bombs with (my estimate) 50 pounds of explosive fill are comparatively puny for anti-ship use. I am quite confident that a statistical analysis of ships damaged by airpower would show extremely few ships above patrol boat size sunk by only one hit from a bomb in the 250 pound range. Unless you're making the claim that modern ships are actually less effective/efficient at damage control, I must continue to suggest the effects from a hit are likely to be less than you're suggesting. Yes, I understand the concept of mission kill or systems kill, and for many missions even just one hit (which pretty much translates into just one bomb dropped if using something like AMSTE) will suffice to achieve the desired result. But there are plenty of WWII destroyers smaller than today's frigates who took one or more 500 pounders (with 200+ pounds of explosive fill) and sailed home. I'd even be willing to bet that more WWII destroyers took one 500 pounder and stayed afloat than took one 500 pounder and sank. And as for auxiliaries like some sort of troop transport I'm even more dubious about the likelihood of only one or a couple SDB hits damaging it so bad that it can't proceed with its mission. I understand the idea that a frigate or destroyer has electronic gear susceptable to shock, ammunition that might be set to burning/exploding, and in general more cramped spaces that could be seriously damaged by the comparatively small blast, but a big LSD or the like would surely need to be targetted with several/many SDBs to achieve a high probability of sufficient damage to send it home. On top of that, if we're talking about a Chinese invasion of Taiwan for example, it seems likely to me they'd press on even if damaged as long as they can make headway. Another plus to this bomb is that it seems a great response to the idea that China may use hundreds of their smaller coast guard and militia boats to ferry troops. If we don't have any higher priority targets, then one pass and there go 200 boats to the bottom of the Strait. Displacedjim
 
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