From the US 'Marine Corps Combat Readyness Evaluation Standards' book circa 1987.

Task 5A,1,23 Conduct An Emergency Displacement

Items .3 and  .4 state:  ...all howitzers... mission essential equipment must be displaced 200 meters within three minutes.

That was nt at all difficult for us to accomplish with the old M101 or M102 105mm howitzers, the M114 155mm towed howitzer, or the various self propelled cannon.  With the eight ton M198 (155mm) that replaced all those on the USMC gun park it took closer to five minutes to limber the beast.

Of course someone would have to return to recover whatever the enemy had left you in the old position : )

Back in the six gun battery days we did ordinary displacements in stages.  An advance party would leave at least a quarter hour before the battery was expected to displace.  The Adv Pty would usually take one or two cannon with them to provide emergency suppresion fires when the main body moved.  A quarter hour or so   before displacement a signal would be give to secure all non mission essential equipment, working partys would return to their sections, some vehicals move to the road,  cammoflage removed if possible...  When the final order for "March Order" was given five to ten minutes were sufficent for limbering the cannon and loading the remaining equipment.  Some times a rear party would remain to complete repairs on a vehical, load extra ammo,  or other tasks. 

With the eight cannon batterys we usually moved by platoons.  Each platoon displaced much the same as the six cannon battery, except the advance party did not take a howitzer with them.  The remaining platoon would usually not displace untill the first was mission ready in its new position.

Under ideal conditions, such as on hard clear desert or grassland surface a battery or platoon could displace in as little as five minutes, less in a emergency.  On difficult ground like the rice paddys of Korea, the snow filled woods of Minninnesota, or in mud ten minutes or more is closer.

Thanks for the info. I was wondering if it took a long time or not.

You mean there are armies so backward that they aren't digitised and use wire comms?

 

Like all these things it depends.  Obviously larger guns take longer to bring out of action than smaller ones. Other factors are:

The time between 'Prepare to Move' and 'Cease Firing'.  This 'window' is when ammo and stores are repacked, less the essentials to remain in action, and cam taken down and packed. 

Next is whether towing vehicles are kept alongside the guns or eleswhere and at what stage they are brought up to the guns. 

 

From cease firing to hooked up and loaded, shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes but is does depend on where the towing and ammo vehicles were when 'Cease Firing' was ordered and how much ammo there is to load.  Also whether its on pallets, boxed or loose.  If on pallets it also depends how good the RTFLs (eg can they load two deep from one side) and their operators are, and to what extent this activity can start before 'Cease Firing'.

 

Non digitised means traditional orientation by director/aiming circle and dial sight/pantel.  8 Guns can be a bit of a challenge and finding reasonable tactical gun positions for a battery of this size that can orient from a single instrument is not always easy.  I'd suggest at least10 minutes in daylight by the time a check bearing has been completed, probably longer if you don't have radio between instrument and guns, but radioless guns positions diasppeared decades ago.  Given digital sighs its more like 60 seconds and probably waiting for the CP computer to re-boot! (unless you've got a modern one).

Thanks,  I'm looking at the M119A2 105mm  the only non-digitized howitzer in the Army inventory. I assmue they still run wire. I don't have an artillery back ground but we were discussing it at work. One of my colleagues said that packing up within two minutes was possible. We were discussing quick firing for the M119A2, where they just pull off the road, setup and fire; then quickly recover. I know the standard is 11 minutes for setup but no recover time was given.

Thanks,  I'm looking at the M119A2 105mm  the only non-digitized howitzer in the Army inventory. I assmue they still run wire. I don't have an artillery back ground but we were discussing it at work. One of my colleagues said that packing up within two minutes was possible. We were discussing quick firing for the M119A2, where they just pull off the road, setup and fire; then quickly recover. I know the standard is 11 minutes for setup but no recover time was given.

Unfortunatly my old copy does not include a standard for a emergency 'hip shoot' misson from a road march.  I've seen claims from Britsh artillerymen of times as low as 90 seconds to unlimber & lay the cannon.  For us, from initial radio order to first shot down range was a bit over five minutes if my dim memory serves.  However laying with a section chiefs compass in a unsurveyed position made accuraccy a bit problematic.

First point is it depends whether the barrel is in the A frame or reversed, if the latter add 30-45 sec.  Otherwies it should take no more than a minute to be ready to receive line (ie orientation) this is the bottleneck because each gun has to be given its own angle by the director/aiming circle, and this has to be set-up.  In quick actions it may be that orientation is done by someone lining up the gun using a prismatic compass 'shot' along the line of each barrel.  This is quicker but will still take some minutes for a battery.

 

Electronic sights as used on L118 by UK and others is much faster, I've read something recently that a UK bty was in action and shooting quicker that an 81mm mortar platoon.

Getting back to the quickfire with the M119 its possible the 11 minutes included intial observers message and azimuth of fire/range-elevation computations.  My memery is we were expected to get all that done in much less than ten minutes.  But, its been 25 years since I did full battery ops with a M101.

Thanks again for the replys. I have another question. What does the wire do? Is it a line connection between field phones?

Carl S,

 

Thanks. I did not realize that there was so much wire being run. So, if you were supporting a movement to contact then if you were going to be in one position for at least 2 hours, then you would probably run wire.

 

Do you know if it is possible to use sigint to locate the battery if they have SINCGARS radios? They might not know what you are saying but would they know where you were?

Carl S.

 

Thanks.