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Subject: Should US Withdraw from Germany?
Phoenix Rising    2/18/2003 9:00:50 PM
It seems to be under strong consideration, at the very least; we already greatly reduced our troop strength there from 1990-96. The political environment is guaranteed to make any future planned reductions much more politically charged, however, and will attract more public attention.

So there are two questions:

1) Should we downsize in Germany, and if so how much?

2) If yes, where do we want to send these forces? Bring them home? Base them in Iraq after hostilities end? Simply move them to NATO's new eastern front (Poland, Hungary, or the Czech Republic, perhaps?)

I actually think that a complete withdrawal of American forces from Germany is not completely unwarranted, though not to economically punish Germany for their intransigence, but more simply to acknowledge the changed strategic realities since the end of the Cold War. One of my choice picks for a place to reposition would be Hungary; it's much closer to the Middle East than Germany, but it's also more stable than many of the smaller Eastern European countries (or any Middle Eastern countries barring the one that we'll never openly position troops in, for political reasons). In addition, it wouldn't irritate Russia so much.

If we're serious about reconstructing Iraq a la Germany and Japan, it wouldn't be a bad idea to send them there, either. Sometimes a large troop presence simply by its very presence helps to calm trouble; it's a symbol of commitment. But I would be very hesitant to send them there if all we wanted to do was use Iraq as a staging ground for attacks on other targets in the region; intentions matter, and we shouldn't be so stupid as to think that the Iraqis will never be able to figure out for themselves what our actions say about our intentions. Having extra firepower in Iraq might also deter other regional opportunists (and I'm not sure if there is any other kind of government in the region) from trying to take advantage of the momentary lapse of government within Iraq for political reasons, if they know that we're going to be there in force and aren't going to appreciate any tampering with the transition to democracy.

--Phoenix Rising
 
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Vulture    RE:Should US Withdraw from Germany?   2/18/2003 10:32:00 PM
Yes to Iraq, if not there then Georgia. Of course the problem with Iraq is how long a presence do we forsee. Bases are a minimun of 10 years commitment.
 
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NewGuy    RE:Should US Withdraw from Germany?   2/19/2003 12:16:56 AM
There are currently plans (made well before the current "crises") in force by the US government to draw-down much of the forces we have in Germany -- at this point, those timetables are being accelerated, mostly due to the need for forces to confront Iraq, and possibly deal with North Korea, but I think also partially in response to the situation that we now see with the recent France-German power play. Now, will *all* the forces come out -- no, as long as we are not actually "asked" to leave, then we will likely maintain at least a minimal presence -- contrary to what some here may try to inform you, there are actually a number of ordinary Germans who *like* having a US military presence in their nation -- over the past 50+ years a number of deep bonds have been made between the German people and those Americans who have been there to help defend Germany from outside forces. NewGuy
 
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11b10    RE:Should US Withdraw from Germany?   2/19/2003 9:53:05 AM
An unmodified forward deploy,forward engagement strategy would seem to provide targets of opportunity to enemies who have no hope of winning a conventional engagement.Though I have not read any thing official, I heard Rumsfield say in at a senate commitee hearing that the military was studying changeing troop deployments in North Korea, due to changed nature of threat presented by N.K.,ie, lack of military support from Russia and China.In order to get me to agree that we should keep troops forward deployed,in Germany, you would have to show me a very good overideing American intrest that justifies makeing our troops into T.O.'s.I just see no justification for keeping troops in Germany.
 
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11b10    RE:Should US Withdraw from Germany?Are They Where They Need To Be?   2/19/2003 12:25:43 PM
If a force is no longer a trip wire force for follow on forces and they have been restricted to uses approved by the host country, what use are they.Bring them home or put them where they making a contribution to the defense of the USA.
 
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American Kafir    RE:Should US Withdraw from Germany?Are They Where They Need To Be?   2/27/2003 1:56:59 PM
I think we should remove all forces in Germany, down to the last bootlace, and put them in South Korea.
 
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FourF    RE:Should US Withdraw from Germany?Are They Where They Need To Be?   2/27/2003 2:22:10 PM
I don't know about that A.K., N. Korea does need to be dealt with, and for sure I'd pull them out of Germany but from a world strategic location ROK is not the best spot. Look at a world map and assess the potential hot spots of the next decade or so and it would be my opinion that the best location to use as a jumping off point would be, OH I dunno, anywhere between the Tigris and Euphrates. 4F
 
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American Kafir    RE:Should US Withdraw from Germany?Are They Where They Need To Be?   2/27/2003 2:38:14 PM
4F, I know we have to deal with real threats before we go after the sh!t-talkers in the world, but I'm a bluff-callin' bastard when it comes to foreign policy. If North Korea wants to act like anything other than total compliance with their nuclear blackmail demands is a casus belli, then we should test them. Triple the troop strengths in South Korea. Dare North Korea to be stupid. America should aggressively pursue the liberation of all nations not governed by the United States. Yes, Britain too.
 
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swami    RE:Should US Withdraw from Germany?   3/22/2004 9:49:17 PM
Yes, I like the idea of moving US troops from Germany and the rest of Europe to closer to the Middle East. I don't really see the advantage of moving them a few hundred miles to Hungary. It doesn't seem to achieve much. If I had to pick a perfect place, I would pick Turkey because it is a NATO ally, it is moving towards democracy and it is very close to the center of the Middle East. Unfortunately, I don't see them approving of 100,000 American troops on their soil in the near future. Iraq makes sense in some ways because I think we will still have troops there in a decade, but we have to be very careful. If a democratically-elected government in Iraq does not want that many troops, we can force them to accept us. Georgia is too small and would piss the hell out of the Russian. Not that I care about Putin and his "election." But if Georgians want us, why not? It is a perfect location. It will cover both the Russians and the Middle East. I think it is a bit dicey until Russians troops evacuate from Georgia. American troops in Georgia. General Sherman would have loved it!
 
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Landser1944    RE:Should US Withdraw from Germany?   6/13/2004 4:41:25 AM
Relations between Europe and Russia go pretty well, there is no reason to create tensions by deploying a 100.000 troops in georgia. Since cold war is over there is no reason for such a strong military presence of US and Britan in germany. We should rather operate some basis together that would increase our capabilities to fight side by side. With all the talking about sending US troops out of iraq they shouldn't be deployed there. It would probably be wise to spread them to south korea, afghanistan, turkey and to bring a part of them home. There is no need for them to stay and they shouldn't just because they have been there a long time.
 
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Worcester    RE:Should US Withdraw from Germany?   6/14/2004 8:35:53 PM
Setting up combined bases is pointless if you wont fight. It's just politics - wont win a war. The strongest measure of our willingness to protect an ally - Germany for example - is the basing of troops in your country. US troops in Germany are a measure of our commitment to NATO and also to your security. Think what it means for you if we leave. And then think about the cost. We have already decided to move many troops to Romania, the Czech Republic and Poland. Better training areas, they welcome us, they are proven allies and they're nearer the action. Perhaps you are closer to a world where you actually have to provide your own defense? Careful what you wish for...we may not be there.
 
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Landser1944    RE:Should US Withdraw from Germany?   6/20/2004 7:35:14 AM
rofl
 
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