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Subject: 1984 Soviet sub collides with USS CV Kitty Hawk off Japan
gixxxerking    3/21/2005 3:18:43 PM
Anybody have any details? Was the Soviet Sub stalking the CV? Was the USN aware of its presence? Was the Victor SSN scrapped?
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:1984 Soviet sub collides with USS CV Kitty Hawk off Japan   3/21/2005 5:44:24 PM
There were 5 Victors and an Alfa that did a "run" against the US East Coast in 1985. They initially breached the ASW "security screens" and as such could have made successful launches if a war was on - but no boats were sunk. I gather this isn't the one you are referring to though? Out of all the Russian subs sunk in the cold war period, I can't recall Kitty Hawk holing a Victor in 1985.
 
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gixxxerking    RE:1984 Soviet sub collides with USS CV Kitty Hawk off Japan   3/21/2005 5:50:51 PM
Thats not the one I was refering to but I am interested to know more? When you say penetrated. Do you mean by stealth or did they overwhelm the screen with numbers? And when you say launches are you refering to missile or torpedo launches? I ask the last question because I do not think they would have been effective against Aegis using limited numbers of non VLS launched victors IMO. Thanks in advance. P.S. The one I was refering to: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/3702/canmar97.htm
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:1984 Soviet sub collides with USS CV Kitty Hawk off Japan   3/21/2005 7:38:20 PM
"When you say penetrated. Do you mean by stealth or did they overwhelm the screen with numbers? And when you say launches are you refering to missile or torpedo launches? I ask the last question because I do not think they would have been effective against Aegis using limited numbers of non VLS launched victors IMO." No, they broke through a very comprehensive screen. They did it deliberately to send a message that Russian subs could still breach the US ASW system. May 29 1985. The Group was led by Shevchenko. The US worked out that it wasn't so much a deficiency in systems, but the fact that there were natural anomalies that the Russians knew how to manipulate. The Russians were making a point and they were successful. The US eventually got support from Woods Hole and Harvard to develop a counter called HOPS. But in real terms, the Russians were in a position to launch if it had gone to a war situation. One of the 5 remained undetected, all others were periodically identified. In one instance however, the Russians tagged a US SSN for 5 days straight. The operation was considered a success due to a number of reasons: - 1, they managed to get all US and NATO assets in region to surge - which is what they wanted as they were also running ferrets - 2, they got into a firing position before US forces could do anything - 3, it gave them renewed confidence that the Victors were a potent platform remember this is at the peak of the cold war when cat and mouse was pretty much for real, so everyone was "trying". They even managed to avoid RN hunter killer teams who they regarded as the more capable of the ASW teams. Schevchenko actually commented that he feared Royal Navy ASW teams more than SOSUS. - so they were ecstatic.
 
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ssnguy    RE:1984 Soviet sub collides with USS CV Kitty Hawk off Japan   3/21/2005 9:43:17 PM
It's interesting they feared the RN hunter-killer teams so much -- that was certainly my feeling after operating against them some years earlier. Tough, nasty customers who knew the business was my impression. Those were VERY nasty times between USN and Soviet Navy. I wonder if the situation will become the same with the Chinese if things go south over Taiwan. Talk about a really nasty conflict....
 
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gixxxerking    RE:1984 Soviet sub collides with USS CV Kitty Hawk off Japan   3/21/2005 9:44:02 PM
That is an awesome story GF. The implications are incredible and show that the Battle of the Atlantic would have been really fierce. Now this was a pre-war manuever. So the USN would have been on the strictest ROE to prevent accidentally starting a war. So if the Soviets had decided to initiate hostilities they clearly would have had some success. But suppose this was a shooting war. I wonder how successful they would have been. From what you write it seems that the USN was aware or their presence. So in a shooting war would the USN been likely to have slotted enough boats to protect the CVN? What do you think?
 
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fxmodels    RE:1984 Soviet sub collides with USS CV Kitty Hawk off Japan   3/21/2005 9:51:06 PM
Somewhere I have an exceptional photo of that Russian sub tied up next to one of its ships. You can see right into its torpedo room practically! The outer hull was completely crushed up front. I dont recall if it was a Victor... I will see if i can dig up, scan, and post, that image. Its here somewhere for sure... Marc
 
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trouble1027    RE:1984 Soviet sub collides with USS CV Kitty Hawk off Japan   10/16/2005 12:09:05 PM
I was a mechanic that worked the flight deck and was attached to VS-38 the fixed wing S-3A Viking ASW squadron attached to the Kitty Hawk when this incident happened. We were in hot contact with a soviet sub for at least a day or two maybe more. and had one to two of the 10 aircraft in the air during most of it. About 3 hour or so prior to the collision all fights where called off for all squadrons aboard the Kitty Hawk. With the last plane recovering about 2 hours prior. I believe H-3 Helo's were still the air, but not sure if they were using dip sonar. I was working during the incident. The ship had very quick and noticable vibration which felt like is was toward the bow on starboard side. With having been in collisions before. I knew we hit something and was waiting for General Quarters to be called, which never happened. Around 10 minutes afterwards the Captain of the ship called over the ship's loud speaker for anyone on sponsons, or on watch, or dumping trash or that may have seen something to report to the captains bridge imidiately and that they were not in any kind of trouble. When flight ops started my squadron did make contact and offered assistance to the sub that was on the surface and noticably damaged, which from what I was told was declined, they were in tow back to Vladiavostok, and we went back to Subic Bay for a week of minor repairs and continued on with our deployment which was just starting.
 
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trouble1027    RE:1984 Soviet sub collides with USS CV Kitty Hawk off Japan   10/17/2005 12:08:18 PM
To answer some of the orginal question. Was the CV being stalked? During the period of 1984 and with all of the cold war. Both Soviet and U.S. Navy's activly stalked each other through out the cold war.Yes we were aware of a sub presence. On all three of my deployments with VS-38 in the early 80's on two different carrier, we always made contact and played the cat and mouse game with Russian sub and surface vessels, even Russian Bear aircraft.. They were always seeking info. on our battle groups and operations, as we were of theirs.
 
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Fast&Deep    RE:1984 Soviet sub collides with USS CV Kitty Hawk off Japan   10/17/2005 3:44:02 PM
Bear Foxtrot 111. Now there was an aircraft to concentrate the mind. "BF111 on the array, circling. Adopt anti Korshun technique". Stop trim and deny them doppler. Hours of fun to be had by all...................Ssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - think quiet - they will go away when they get low on fuel, in about 24 hours. Bear Juliet - now that aircraft made things really interesting........a whole new ball game!!!!!!!!
 
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683spa    RE:1984 Soviet sub collides with USS CV Kitty Hawk off Japan   10/19/2005 3:17:00 PM
"There were 5 Victors and an Alfa that did a "run" against the US East Coast in 1985. They initially breached the ASW "security screens" and as such could have made successful launches if a war was on - but no boats were sunk." Thats a real cool story where'd ya hear it?
 
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