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Subject: Oyashio class versus Collins Class
stingray1003    11/25/2006 9:53:40 PM
These are with out a doubt the two most capable conventional submarines in the world almost by default because of 3000+ ton displacement. They seem to be extremely simular. In what areas dones one sub have a advantage over the other?
 
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Yimmy       11/25/2006 11:00:39 PM

These are with out a doubt the two most capable conventional submarines in the world almost by default because of 3000+ ton displacement.

There are other good long range SSK's out there.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/ssk_victoria/images/Victoria_5.jpg">
 
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Herald1234    There sure are.......   11/25/2006 11:36:37 PM
http://misheli.image.pbase.com/g4/28/540728/2/51973783.2005_1108Image0035.jpg" width=800 border=0>
 
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Herald1234    There sure are.......   11/25/2006 11:36:41 PM
http://misheli.image.pbase.com/g4/28/540728/2/51973783.2005_1108Image0035.jpg" width=800 border=0>
 
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Herald1234    There sure are.......   11/25/2006 11:36:44 PM
http://misheli.image.pbase.com/g4/28/540728/2/51973783.2005_1108Image0035.jpg" width=800 border=0>
 
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Herald1234    Confound it!   11/25/2006 11:59:19 PM
I just brushed my enter button and triple posted! Apologies.
 
Anyway, the French build very good SSK submarines, the Dutch did, although I don't know if they still do, The Australians and Japanese are already mentioned, even the US could if we ever got back into the business.
 
I think Italy produced some good workmanlike designs with their Nauros.
 
I reserve judgement on Sweden. From what I know about Kockums and a certain customer, their reputation went to mud in a big way.
 
Russia probably could produce a good SSK (at least for themselves).
 
However for the quality in that type of boat it would have to be Australia, Japan, Germany, and France.
 
Britain's Upholders?
 
 
 
Canada has had fair mixed luck on what should be very good boats. Like the Collins initially turned out to be, the Victorias will be difficult to debug given the condition with which the Canadians found them when they accepted them accepted for service, but those submarines should be among the best in service once Canada  "fixes" them. Canada has a formidable native technical base and should be able to sort it all out.
 
Herald 
 
 
 
Herald     
 
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EW3    Herald   11/26/2006 12:21:31 AM
Doubt the US would get back into building conventional subs again, although Tango Bravo might change that. 
For now we have VA clas subs in the pipeline for quite a while. 
Also not sure how much building conventional subs helps the US. 
 
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Herald1234    It might have helped us in the export market.   11/26/2006 12:31:50 AM
Taiwan for one.
 
Other nations friendly to us might have bought US built boats.....(Canada? Turkey?  etc.)
 
We might have sold India a few to counter the very good French boats Pakistan purchased.
 
A billion here, a billion there, anything to help the trade deficit. 
 
Why should France and Germany get all the orders?
 
Herald
 
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EW3       11/26/2006 12:40:38 AM
Good points, let me think on them...
 
 
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Francois       11/26/2006 2:28:24 AM
By hearing the complaints from the Greeks, I get to change my mind on the T214.
And only a small part of it is out in the media actually.
 
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YelliChink       11/26/2006 3:38:34 AM
If our Legislative Yuan can somehow reach concensus on sub deal, which is provided by a viable US design, then it should work. Many Taiwanese think that the whole sub purchase is a scam, since no other nation is expected to grant production right of diesel subs to the US. Unlike PAC3 and P-3C purchase, which we know why and what to buy, the sub deal is completely foggy. If the US sub builders can come up a definate plan of  a diesel boat with detailed spec and expected performance, then it should be able to convince the public to support the sub deal. However, it seems to me that USN and PACCOM are not happy about the deal and tried something to scuttle it. It is not that they don't want Taiwan's navy to have subs, but any other subs except US-built ones. These people don't want the Congress, lobbied by military-industrial complex, forcing USN to buy diesel boat in the name of budget constraint and benefit to electoral districts, and they want only nuclear boats.
 
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