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Subject: America vs. Russia
sooner    1/30/2004 11:22:14 AM
Allies--supposedly. Who would strategically win a war?
 
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Lightning Rod    RE:RUSSIA IS STRONGER THEN U THINK   6/2/2004 12:01:22 PM
The topic was Russia Vs America. That means the USA not Brazil. Russia would be a very tough foe for any other country in the world. Even the USA. Please let me know were you came up with the idea that the US has 250 aircraft. Put the crack pipe down!
 
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Danuas    RE:RUSSIA IS STRONGER THEN U THINK   6/2/2004 2:39:12 PM
well Let me first say that 250 sounds a bit low, i know that. Go to http://www.nationmaster.com/country/us/Military This is where i got most of my info from. Oh by the way, please try and act a bit more "grown up". This is discussion, not a street fight.
 
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sentinel28a    RE:RUSSIA IS STRONGER THEN U THINK   6/2/2004 5:33:35 PM
Maybe you meant 2500? That sounds about right for the USAF. Of course, that doesn't include US Naval Aviation or the Marines' air wings. Numbers don't mean squat. By sheer numbers, we should have lost in Iraq last year and the Wehrmacht shouldn't have gotten past Kiev in '41. What you look at are things like morale, logistics, and quality. Right now, Russia suffers in all three categories, though they are getting better. In a straight-up conventional war, Russia would lose. But it would be like Napoleon fighting Prussia--we would defeat Russia only to have to fight them three years later. I don't think anyone has been able to occupy the Russians since the Mongols for any appreciable length of time. I'm not saying this to run down Russia. Of all the countries in the world, Russia tops the list of Countries Not to Fight.
 
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tank    RE:America vs. Russia   6/2/2004 5:42:12 PM
That is true sentinal .Even if russia had 2400 aircraft they would not have good qualified pilots to fly them at this point.I know that attacking russia conventionally could be one by the u.s..BUT at this point china is more of a concern to both countries. ON THE SUB NUMBERS DANIUS brought up MOST of the subs have been retired or are not operational.At this point in time the UNITED STATES has a much bigger sub fleet than russia.
 
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Danuas    RE:America vs. Russia   6/2/2004 8:40:38 PM
Well this is a very hard topic to discuss. First of all, Russia arent sharing all of its info on the army. So its really hard to say. By the way tank. You may actually have right in the submarine fleet. Russia has a very large fleet, but few of them are new and advanced. I am sorry if i was wrong. But I must say one thing. China is of NO concern for us. China will in no doubt be the richest country in the world by 8 years. But how do they get their money. Because they export many goods to the west. If they attacked us then who would buy their stuff. This would really decline their economy.
 
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Ad    RE:America vs. Russia   6/8/2004 6:52:51 AM
Danus, firstly the Russian Navy can only operate for SSN’s and not all at the same time. Such is the poor quality of the sailors and condition of the Navy. Russia has no operational carrier as the Admiral Kuznetsov has sailed with an air group since 1995. The USN has 51 operational Los Angeles class SSN’s. It can maintain 4 CBG’s at anyone time. Just to put this into a little perspective. Russia’s projection power is none existent. Its economy lacks enough muscle to sustain a force. Corruption is rife, and this is impeding growth. I don’t know where this site got its figures, put its clear from your use that you understand very little about modern military power.
 
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roadcop    RE:America vs. Russia   6/8/2004 10:00:13 AM
There was interesting quote from XVIII century history. When Empress Yelisaveta (Peter the Great's daughter) came to power after years of political crisis, she said - "I have a lot of warships with lot of men, but I have no any Navy or Sailors". (I dont know how to translate correctly, sorry). Now, the situation is even worse.
 
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Backfirecb    RE:America vs. Russia   6/8/2004 10:31:14 PM
Well, if you ask me Russia should keep a few capital ships, but not many and focus on smaller easier maintainable vessels like Frigates and Corvettes, now they may not be complete deep blue vessels but arm them with the Sunburn missile and you can have a relatively inexpensive ship but with good knockout power.
 
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Ad    RE:America vs. Russia   6/9/2004 7:32:29 AM
The Russian Navy needs a new direction with which to arm and gear its forces towards. It can’t afford anything new or innovative with a R&D budget of just $2.1 billion, going across the Russian armed forces at a whole. Expect $500 million to be going to the Navy. An overhaul in the training system needs to be put in place, as the quality of manpower is quite frankly pathetic. The number of surface vessels needs to be decreased, and allow a rotation of crews, which have experience to build up. Smaller, yet of a far greater quality and higher moral, is going to go along way. Russia needs to understand that it can’t compete with either of the top two Navy’s; USN or the Royal Navy. They have too much money and are of such higher quality in training and experience that Russia simply can’t. Swallow the pride. Therefore direction needs to be stated. It needs a competent force which may be capable of growth in the future, when the Navy gets a large defence budget. It also needs to know its enemy isn’t the West but China. Therefore, a good ASW vessel needs to be selected. With a reduction of other surface combatants and a scraping of the Krivak class, then you’ve freed up expansion is a better ship design in the Neustrashimy Class (Type 11540) Frigates. Improve sensor quality with something like the type 996, seen on Type-23’s and you have yourself a very good ASW Frigate, with space to build up several squadrons in the Pacific theatre. Improving from three to a size of 20, will allow Russia to get a good coverage for any future Chinese SSK or even SSN advances. A reduction of one of the Kirov Class cruisers, would free up capital and give Russia greater flexibility; with crews, finances and expansion. SSN/SSBN’s have proved a massive drain on Russian finances. The shrinking of the six Typhoons to two and one trainer is a good move. By reducing your fleet of 12 Akula Class SSN’s (of which not all are operational due to financial and crewing problems) you give your self a greater flexibility and improve crew experience. An split of 2:6 in the North Sea and Pacific Ocean should allow the Akula to have a longer life and serve more of a purpose, as with a smaller but stronger 6 Akula SSN fleet, supported by 16 Neustrashimy class ASW frigates, then you have a force, which can control and deter Chinese naval expansion. If and when the time comes and Russia is able to afford to maintain a carrier, with its full air contingent, indefinitely, then you add greater operational depth to your forces. It wouldn’t provide global reach, as your axially force is to small in comparison with the big Navy’s (big and everything works!), but it would provide suitable strike from the Pacific fleet, causing the Chinese further problems. I’ve painted a far rosier picture of the Russian Navy, I’m afraid it isn’t as good or going to get as good as I made out. The Russian Army and Air Force will see benefits first, as these are the frontline defences. 40 hours a year flying time compared to 200 in most NATO Air Forces tells its own story.
 
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Ad    RE:America vs. Russia   6/9/2004 7:35:30 AM
*axially /auxiliary
 
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