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Subject: TURKS(if you want to write comments read)
kane    11/8/2005 4:59:03 PM
Turkish nation has a history of 4000 years.their motherland is central asia(which still contains turkish nations like azerbeycanikazakistan,türkmenistan,özbekistan) turks were not muslim in the beginning.the were shamanist.there were many turkish nations like huns,gokturks,uygurs in cenral asia.turks were fighting aganist chinese and mongols those time.some moved to west(european huns you may know atilla) in those moves some turks moved to anatolia beat byzantium and entered anatolia(these turks were muslims because before these times muslim empire helped turks aganist chinese).they build a big empire and stoped many crusades by themselves.but mongols defeated them.turks were seperated. ottomans conquered those turkish lands and grew.in 1453 MEHMET conquered istanbul.foreigners were living freely in ottoman lands.ottomans were defending them they were not invading. Ottomans grew and sieged vienna 2 times.conqured too many lands and it was hard to defend it aganist russians,austrians,persians,venice in the same time so they lost many lands. years passed and.ottomans lost 2 balkan wars.(first was revolt second was land problems)they lost trablusgarp aganist italians. and we entered 1.world war becuse of germans.we were doing well but germans were taking our troops to europe.we beat whole english naval fleet but we lost 1.world war .too many lands were invaded by italians,armenians,russians,english and french.turks began turkish indepence war in command of atatürk.it is a long story. atatürk made many revolutions.and this turkey was formed.in 1950's we joined korean battle. in 1970 we conquered nort cyprus to help turks living there because rums were killing them. and now we're trying join eu which is not needed.we are the 19th strongest economy with a population of 70.000.000 we have the 10th biggest army and at least 10000000 soldiers in war times. we have been fighting aganist pkk(a terrorist group) and thousand of turks were killed by them but countires like denmark and belgium is defending them. this is a short info about turkey turks there are 250 000 000 turks in the world and uniting them would be great.
 
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Titan    RE:Kane   11/8/2005 5:14:58 PM
"in those moves some turks moved to anatolia beat byzantium and entered anatolia(these turks were muslims because before these times muslim empire helped turks aganist chinese).they build a big empire and stoped many crusades by themselves.but mongols defeated them.turks were seperated". What exactly do you mean by saying: but Mongols defeated them, who did they defeat?
 
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Pars    RE:Kane   11/8/2005 7:15:11 PM
Ancient Turks were not Shamanist. GokTengri religion was far much complex than Shamanism. And also it was highly influenced by Iranian Dualism (probably passed thru by Sakas or Yue-Chi's). The early Turkologs thinked it as a version of Shamanism due to beliefs of nature spirits in the religion. Beside that your summary of Turkish history is very incomplete and very unclear. Even a short summary might take several pages. It is prefarable not to try it in a board.
 
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kane    RE:SORRY   11/9/2005 8:37:29 AM
SORRY i just wanted say that we were not muslims.i don't have that much information about our religion in those days.sorry again i meant seljuks.they were beaten by mongols. TÜRK KARDEŞLERİM BEN SADECE MİLLETİMİZİN ŞANLI TARİHİNİ KISACA ANLATMAYA ÇALIŞTIM ELBETTE HATALARIM VAR.ÖZÜR DİLERİM.
 
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HoundOfHello    RE:Kane   11/9/2005 8:45:31 PM
At the time of the Seljuk invasions of the Anatolian plains (which were then controlled by the Byzantine Empire), the Seljuk Turks were MUSLIM! -HoH
 
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Pars    RE:Kane   11/10/2005 7:39:19 PM
The Seljuks were officially Muslim. But many Turks in the nation were still following Gok Tengri religion. Seljuks were in the transition period of changing religion. For example Alparslan's tying the tail of his horse is a Gok Tengri religious act. Although Alparslan is known as a sincere Muslim this act shows that he was still following some traditions belonged to other religion.
 
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Clausewitz    RE:Turkey should not advertise with a culture ist destroyed   11/13/2005 8:41:28 AM
There is a lot of thousands years old history along the mediterainian coast. But that is greek history and not turkish history. There is thousands years old persian history too. But this has nothing to do with the turks. There is the history of the "Hethiter" (german spelling). Just take a look in the bible. But that have nothing to do with the turks. Otherwise aztek and inka culture would have be counted as spanish culture. The turks are a people out of asea. Like the huns and dschings khan. The turkish language is understood in central asea where the turkish roots are. Tukey should not advertise with a culture it destroyed.
 
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Pars    RE:Clausewitz   11/13/2005 1:49:13 PM
What is the relationship of your post to the other posts under this topic. As none of the other posts have ever mentioned any culture other than Turks? If you are talking about Seljuks; they were Turks.
 
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Clausewitz    RE:Clausewitz - to Pars   11/14/2005 9:03:51 AM
You are right. But if you read the advertisement of some travel agents here in Germany you would know what I mean. And many really claim all the old culture down there to the turkish people. And I concede that there is a little truth. Turks are a mixture of the ancient turks and greeks and Hethites and persians and so on. I just tried to explain that the ancient turks do not have to anything with these old cultures they destroyed. The turks remain an honest people with brave soldiers and a fine military. I like them (in spite of their nationalism and their lies about the armenian genocide - todays turks have nothing to with that). But I have many friends I would not live together in my house. Same for Turkey and the EU.
 
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Pars    RE:Clausewitz - to Pars   11/14/2005 5:29:34 PM
I disagree. It is very hard to distinguish a Greek and a Turk other than language and religion. Turks and Greeks like same kind of Music (Turkish songs are popular in Greece and Greek songs in Turkey); same kind of foods, both have similar code of honor and hospitality. It was a not generally known fact that Greek merchants and aristocrats supported Ottoman state from the very beginning. In Ottoman history there are many famous Greek generals and bureacrats serving the Empire. Ottoman Empire did follow several Greek and Persian traditions and mixed them their own Steppe traditions. My point is genetically and culturely today Anatolian Turks are a mixture of local Anatolian cultures (many different cultures) and Turkish culture. Besides if you want to see Ancient Greek cities nearly a quarter of them are in Turkey.
 
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Schackleford    RE:TURKS(if you want to write comments read)   12/11/2005 6:16:34 AM
"Turkish nation has a history of 4000 years.their motherland is central asia" As I have stated elsewhere, 1400 years at the most is a more proper assesment. "turks were not muslim in the beginning" This one is a no-brainer. Islam was only founded around the 7th or 8th century. "the were shamanist.there were many turkish nations like huns,gokturks,uygurs in cenral asia.turks were fighting aganist chinese and mongols those time.some moved to west(european huns you may know atilla)" Funny enough, you consider Europeans to be barbarians because they have a similar past, yet you do not consider the ancient Turks to be barbarians, do you? "they build a big empire and stoped many crusades by themselves" It is common knowledge that the Crusaders fought against "the Saracens", a term that was used about the Arabs that were led by Saladin, who was a Kurd. "Ottomans grew and sieged vienna 2 times" And were beaten back 2 times. "conqured too many lands and it was hard to defend it aganist russians,austrians,persians,venice in the same time so they lost many lands." No such thing as conquering to much land. The reason that the Otttoman Empire fell apart is not that they were over-burdened, but because of the decline of the Ottoman Empire, which was used to great extent by their neighbors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire#Stagnation_.281683.E2.80.931827.29 "and we entered 1.world war becuse of germans" The Ottoman Empire entered the war because they saw a chance to revive their dying empire. Just how is the German Empire responsible for entry of The Ottoman Empire. "we were doing well but germans were taking our troops to europe" After a few intial victories, where the Turkish troops took many casualties against the Entente powers, there followed a long string of defeats for The Ottoman Empire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamian_Campaign#Campaign http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Battle_of_Gaza http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Beersheba As you can see, there were no evil Germans around during these battles to prevent the Turks from fighting their best. But they still lost. Seems more like an excuse to me... "in 1970 we conquered nort cyprus to help turks living there because rums were killing them." I presume "rums" is some sort of derogatory term for Greek Cypriots. It is not proven that Greek Cypriots were engaged in any kind of genocide or had any kind of malevolent intentions against Turkic Cypriots or Turks in general. On the contrary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Invasion_of_Cyprus#Greek_Cypriot_accusations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Invasion_of_Cyprus#Human_Rights_Violations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Invasion_of_Cyprus#Destruction_of_Cultural_Heritage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Invasion_of_Cyprus#Turkish_Immigration "and now we're trying join eu which is not needed" Are you saying you know better then every politican and economist in Turkey how you are to run your country's economy? A membership of the EU would greatly help Turkey, at the expense of every other member who would have to contribute to agricultural subsidies and other help programs for Turkey. "we are the 19th strongest economy with a population of 70.000.000" Before you get going on the wonders of Turkey's economy, perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the basic facts: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tu.html#Econ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Turkey "we have the 10th biggest army and at least 10000000 soldiers in war times." With 635,500 active troops, Turkey's army ranks 7th in peacetime. I seriously doubt that Turkey could ever field even a proportion of the 13,905,901 (2005 est.) men in Turkey fit for military service. In any case, that is irrelevant as "war times" is not likely to happen in 21st century low-intensity warfare. Who cares about how many millions men Turkey could field in some theoretical situation that is never going to happen? Of more interest is the fact that Turkey can deploy 90,000 to 100,000 troops for joint operations, and can airlift 5 or 6 battalions at a time. That's not so bad. "we have been fighting aganist pkk(a terrorist group) and thousand of turks were killed by them" Because of Turkey's oppresion of the Kurdish people and culture. "but countires like denmark and belgium is defending them." I suppose I should be getting mad right about now, but I can't help but smile at this. What are you talking about and where is your evidence?
 
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