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Subject: Attitude of active service personel towards reserves
Thomas    5/14/2003 3:07:14 AM
The condecending attitude of full-time professionals toward reserve, home guard and other volunteer seems to a general problem. What are we going to do?
 
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Shaka of Carthage    RE:Attitude of active service personel towards reserves   5/14/2003 2:25:50 PM
Its not a big enough problem that requires a solution. Its just one of those things that occurs. No different than the inter-service rivalries within the US, or the inter-regimental rivalries within the UK.
 
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mick    RE:Attitude of active service personel towards reserves   7/22/2003 9:26:34 AM
Sorry you feel that way brother, I have a lot of freinds that are reserves
 
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joe6pack    RE:Attitude of active service personel towards reserves   7/28/2003 10:52:33 AM
I don't think it's so much a rivalry.. A number of the reserve troops were once active duty after all. It's just that there is so big a gap in training and readyness if it wasn't so sad it would be laughable. There are just skill sets that can't be maintained for one weekend a month. Active duty people tend to view themselves as the proffesionals and reservists as well... like its their hobby (this is perhaps a little unfair). However, simply put, 4 years active service equates into something like 32 years(assuming about 45 reserve days a year)of reserve duty as far as days in uniform. Its hard to view them as being equal. Personally, I honor anyone that chooses to serve their country in uniform. However, to equate or nearly equate reserves with active duty - I think is folly. Its the difference between proffessional and college athletics.
 
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ChdNorm    RE:Attitude of active service personel towards reserves   10/23/2003 3:32:18 AM
Heres why I dont hold the reserves, and especially the guard in much esteem. I served in the 2d ACR, a unit I was proud to be a part of and what I consider to be a very professional unit. My dealings with reservists were few and far between on active duty. I form my opinion after my discharge from active duty. I approached my states NG division with interest in enlisting. The top in the TOW company in my area allowed me to tag along on an upcoming weekend drill to see what I thought about it. It was a weekend FX, which in all actually was nothing but roadmoaching a column and camping out. No training took place. No attempt at all was made to enforce even basic military operations. Wait, it gets better ...... i figured out it was 100% watch pretty quick. Meaning 100% of the entire company slept all night. And to finish off the weekend ........ when we arrived back sunday around noon the company hadnt burned enough fuel that was allocated for the training cycle. So the Capt announces that the HMMWVs were to be left idling out back to burn up as much as possible .... and I quote "so it'll look like we accomlished our training for this drill". I left disgusted. Aside from the Top himself, the only other person in the entire company that seemed to have a clue at all was a 19 year old 2d Lt! Later in the week the same Top called and asked whether I was interested in joining his company. I told him I was not interested and exactly why. He actually seemed pretty sharp for a REALLY old timer (he wore a combat patch from the 2d ID and this was 1991 ...... hence the REALLY old timer part) He agreed with everything I said and didnt blame me one bit.
 
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ChdNorm    RE:Attitude of active service personel towards reserves   10/23/2003 3:33:51 AM
Heres why I dont hold the reserves, and especially the guard in much esteem. I served in the 2d ACR, a unit I was proud to be a part of and what I consider to be a very professional unit. My dealings with reservists were few and far between on active duty. I form my opinion after my discharge from active duty. I approached my states NG division with interest in enlisting. The top in the TOW company in my area allowed me to tag along on an upcoming weekend drill to see what I thought about it. It was a weekend FX, which in all actually was nothing but roadmoaching a column and camping out. No training took place. No attempt at all was made to enforce even basic military operations. Wait, it gets better ...... i figured out it was 100% watch pretty quick. Meaning 100% of the entire company slept all night. And to finish off the weekend ........ when we arrived back sunday around noon the company hadnt burned enough fuel that was allocated for the training cycle. So the Capt announces that the HMMWVs were to be left idling out back to burn up as much as possible .... and I quote "so it'll look like we accomlished our training for this drill". I left disgusted. Aside from the Top himself, the only other person in the entire company that seemed to have a clue at all was a 19 year old 2d Lt! Later in the week the same Top called and asked whether I was interested in joining his company. I told him I was not interested and exactly why. He actually seemed pretty sharp for a REALLY old timer (he wore a combat patch from the 2d ID and this was 1991 ...... hence the REALLY old timer part) He agreed with everything I said and didnt blame me one bit.
 
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Thomas    ChdNorm    10/23/2003 7:55:21 AM
I perfectly understand your feelings with that experience. In my experience of National Guard - type units is: is no good. 1/4 is so-so, can do limited duties. 1/8 is on par with the well trained troops. 1/16 is really top notch. My problem was, that when I was serving my term in the national service the standard I saw was below anything I had ever seen in 10 years of service in the Home Guard.
 
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macawman    There is some hope for Iraq bound NG units   10/23/2003 1:33:32 PM
NG units being assigned to Iraq will see most of the unqualified and political appointed officers transfer out of those assigned units. This scenerio was esp. prevalent with the Georgia NG Bde activated for Desert Storm '91' and is likely common practice with current NG units. Horsesoldier: let us if this SOP has changed.
 
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ChdNorm    RE:There is some hope for Iraq bound NG units   10/23/2003 10:11:04 PM
Kind of thinking back to the first and second world wars ... wasnt there pretty much a purge of the reserve officer corps in the NG division after called up for service? It seems like anytime I've read of divisions in early 40's time period the reserve officers from the inter-war years seemed to have been pretty much stood down on medicals or shifted way back from most command positions. Also my last post needs a correction ....... it was 94 not 91 ... its time i learn how to type.
 
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AlbanyRifles    This is a thorny issue...   10/24/2003 8:12:07 AM
Most of the heartburn in the US Army is about the quality of the maneuver forces in the NG. While I don't discount ChdNorm's experience, a lot has happened to improve the NG maneuver units sine 1991. They have and continue to shoulder the load in the Balkans and some in Iraq. It is a matter of training. Once those very difficult and perishable skills are relearned, the NG units perform admirably. Now as for the vast majority of FA, AVN, ENG, those units in NG and AR have always performed VERY well. Guys stay in those units a long time and often work in jobs in their community which enhance their military jobs. For example, a 31 year old specialist in an engineer unit (USAR) who operates a bulldozer in the whatever engineers often time operates a bulldozer 45 hours a week for a construction company. Meanwhile, a 20 year old active duty engineer operates his bulldozer maybe 20 hours a month. Who do you think does the better job? This same example extends to medical, transportation, supply maintenance, MP, etc. I worked with the NG a lot in the mid to late 1980s and I will agree the level of ability in the MANEUVER forces were not the great. But the support forces were usually pretty good. And as I worked more with them through the 1990s to today, I have become impressed with their professionalism and abilities. As for the attitude of the active duty towards the reserves in the US Army, I think you have to be a little careful. If we are talking the attitude of a young comabt soldier/NCO/officer in the 101st, 3rd ID, etc., well they think the soldiers in their DISCOM are a bunch of pukes and are worthless. But I guarantee you that the supplies coming forward are in trucks driven by reserve soldiers, guarded by NG MPs, controlled by Army reserve movement control centers, and loaded by a reserve supply company, all under the control of a theater support command that is from Louisiana. And those guys just don't care what those guys up front think of them because they are too busy doing an important job. And ask the Air Force how they could fly their transports without the AF Reserve. So when you here "the actives hate the reserves", careful what you say and read more into it. Now I know there are some problems (witness FT Stewart) but you need to read a little more. For instance, the barracks at FT Stewart are full of 3rd ID soldiers. Reservists have always gone into the National Guard training area, which are cinder block open bay buildings with baulky heaters and little or no air conditioning. Yes, the buildings stink but its the best they have. So its is not the active army hates those reserve soldiers, its there is nowhere else to put them. And are the medical holds being mistreated? Well, a few may be but for the most part there are good people trying to do the right thing who are understaffed. So be careful of the noise you hear froma politician trying to make political hay in the news.
 
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macawman    Albany's point about NG facilities   10/24/2003 10:51:18 AM
The facilities are primitive because the Guard typicaly only use these contonment areas during their Summer ATs. Most of them were built in the 40's and 50's. An example of primitive is North Ft Hood training area for the 49th Amd Div. Since the US is going to continue to use the Guard overseas a fiscal effort should be made to upgrade these staging facilities to current standards. I think this will occur due to Congressional awareness of the situation esp. at Ft Stewart, GA. but it will take a few years.
 
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