Whoops interweb doubleposted... Anways:

 

Actually spetsnaz is not as broad as many think. During the Cold War days the USSR had up to 15,000 Spetsnaz troops, todays esitmates range more in the 1500 range. Considering the size of Russia that is a very elite ratio of recruits right there. As for the sepcificality of Spetsnaz, you could argue and say specifically Seal Team 6 then or something like that but we're talking about a broad topic here. Based on training alone I would say the Spetsnaz are a more combat effective fighting force based on recruit to recruit for all forms of special forces. There is a reason why Spetsnaz operators are seen as some of the most feared combat units in the world. Their near fanatical resolve makes them extremely effective, coupled with like I said 5 years of some of the most intense training in the world inolving lots of live fire exercises, Spetsnaz are arguably the most combat ready operators to date. They're trained in a variety of foriegn languages, effective foriegn vehicle and weapon operation, and their tactics go beyond firefights and normal concealment. As I mentioned before they are also trained assassins and have a long history of being ruthless fighters. They gain a little more prestige based on that fear factor.

 

As far as SEALS are concerned, their operational expirence makes them formidible at best. They don't cover a broad a range of mission capablities as Spetsnaz do, however they are still an effective combat group who is evenly matched up with the SAS. SEAL Team 6 of course being focused on Counter-Terrorism brings alot to the CT Community. However that being said, as far as Counter-Terrorism goes, you could say the same for GSG-9, SAS, GIGN, and simillar groups. So in the grand scheme of things neither SAS or SEALS are anything TOO special in the world market of special operations.

 

So to put it simply, in a hostage situation at the beach SAS would come in throught the roof, SEALS would have allready been there only for both to find Spetsnaz killed everyone.

That's where your wrong, because then you would have to say "SEAL Team 6" in your defense. Spetsnaz is the same group. It doesn't cover all of Russian special forces. You forget this is no longer the Cold war thus Spetsnaz numbers are down considerably. Spetsnaz in roughly translates from a phrase "Group for a special purpose." So if you wanna butt heads on units here: doesnt really matter what unit we're talking about they all start off with the same training and then train in specializations. The Sptenaz your talking about are actually Russian Naval Spetsnaz, disolved with the KGB. The spetnsaz I speak of is the GRU-controlled Spetsnaz, NOT the MDV-controlled Spetsnaz. And my argument doesn't need units. Pick ANY Spetnsaz unit, and plug them into this tried and tested forumula:

 

Spetsnaz > x = Lots of bodies.

 

x = ____________.

Sorry i should really consolidate my posts lol:

 

In response to bob's quote below:

 

Can we please not go into class numbers/swim buddies/selection course routes or anything else that will give information to the walting community, the less they have to go on the easier they are to bag

BTDT, we know the guy is a clown no need to give him the attention he was craving


BTW it's obvious the North transdocian summer bobsleigh underwater knife fighting ninja commando SEALs are God's finest SOF unit

You're right bro!!!!  But you know those ninja commando SEALs are still second to those space shuttle door gunners lol... I'm new to this board so I'm feeling out the environment..

that none of the posters who claim to "be in the know" have made note that for the last fifteen years the winner of  the annual Forces Spéciales Competion D'Élite Internationale held each year at the old Olympics complex in Albertville, France (which is not open to the public or media), has been the Republic of Fiji Military Forces' "Commandos" which is an elite 16-man unit (0.5% of the total Fijian military) that operates throughout the full spectrum of special operations tasks (DA, FID, CT, CI, SR, TR, HR, GOPLAT, and all surface and sub-surface maritime operations).  Each member is fully qualified in HALO, HAHO, Military Diving (SCUBA, salvage, and mixed gas rigs), demolitions (including atomic), explosive ordinance disposal (including "make-safe"), Sniper, Sapper, Field Fortification Specialists, and Advanced Communications.  All candidates must demonstrate Black-Belt mastery of at least four separate combat arts as part of the eighteen-month long selection process, which also includes a six-month deployment to the Sinai desert to secure the Rafah border crossing on the Israeli border.  The training/qualification program is an additional 42 months long and includes 5 live deployments to various "hot-spots".  Upon completion of the course, the members incur a mandatory 22 year obligation to the Republic of Fiji Military Forces.  They are so elite and classified that they are not listed as a separate organization by the the RFMF, they are simply accounted for as members of the infantry battalion.   

   

that both Bob and Mough can add to the details of the RFMF Commandos since most commonwealth SF units are blessed with the opportunity to train with them.  Even Horsesoldier may have had the opportunity to train with them during one of the international SF exchanges so he may be able to add some insight as well.  I wouldn't be surprised at all is Bluewings has worked with them since France sponsors the competition.

. Pick ANY Spetnsaz unit, and plug them into this tried and tested forumula:

the problem with the formula is that frequently the mission doesn't call for generating lots of bodies or is even going to be a failure based on generating lots of dead bodies. 

DK is right about specifying what spetz you are talking about as it seems to be a rather general term these days.  i've even read about a dept store deploying spetz security guards to cut down on the shoplifting.

thanks old grunt that was interesting and those guys sound rather scary.  someone is in for a horrible shock one day

rather odd that one, 'cause i have no recollection of saying that at all. whoops, seems like you have trouble quoting, makes one wonder how strong your other arguments will be. i could quote ghandi and say he declared the gorkhas the best fighting unit in the world... but i wouldn't be right 'cause ghandi didn't say that... ie, look at who said something properly before claiming they said it. i'll address your other silly thoughts later, i'm off for lunch. old grunt, please do not let on too much about the 'fearless' fijians! they don't want too much public attention, lets just leave it at you, mough, horse, and myself as in the know.