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Subject: NAVY SEALS VS BRITISH SAS
LJ813    7/1/2005 9:34:17 PM
I WILL GO FOR THE NAVY..
 
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mough       2/13/2008 6:13:33 PM





...A couple of the lads were into that sort of stuff, me not so much, I preferred to put faith in my short [in the event things got romantically close {which they never did}]. I tried to test my mettle against other blokes in the regiment, just buggering around milling really and often was my backside handed to me [the name horsfall rings a bell ].




If you don't mind me asking, what did you carry and what was your personal favorite in terms of sidearms?  Were you given much leeway in terms of choices or was everyone pretty much with the same setup?  I have heard that the Group guys are rather fond of their 1911s but I imagine that has a lot to do with Haney's book, I'm not sure how accurate of a reflection that is today.


No they use 1911's customised by Larry Vickers, he also customises HK45's
 
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Triggerman       3/7/2008 3:18:44 PM
well if the the seals have a 15% dropout rate (85%) pass rate, thats huge compared the the SAS pass rate of only 2-6%. I think you probably meant that only 15% pass the training but presumably that still makes it 3 times easier than SAS training. IMO the SAS record speaks for itself, they are by far the most elite and best trained special forces unit in the world, no question. SAS selection training is the most rigourous in the world, you have to survive in the wilderness in the middle of nowhere with no supplies, while having to evade a hunting party. After a week of survival, they must turn themselves in, where they are subject to both physical and mental torture. If they break at all they automatically fail the selection process.

After all this comes their training which is much harder than any other special forces unit.

 
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bob the brit       3/7/2008 6:44:04 PM

well if the the seals have a 15% dropout rate (85%) pass rate, thats huge compared the the SAS pass rate of only 2-6%. I think you probably meant that only 15% pass the training but presumably that still makes it 3 times easier than SAS training. IMO the SAS record speaks for itself, they are by far the most elite and best trained special forces unit in the world, no question. SAS selection training is the most rigourous in the world, you have to survive in the wilderness in the middle of nowhere with no supplies, while having to evade a hunting party. After a week of survival, they must turn themselves in, where they are subject to both physical and mental torture. If they break at all they automatically fail the selection process.

After all this comes their training which is much harder than any other special forces unit.


...
 
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GOP       3/8/2008 1:45:20 AM
This thread is very entertaining. Nothing quite like 200 uninformed idiots getting into dick waving contests over the best SOF unit.
 
Seems to be as good a place to ask as any, as this is sort of the commando's 'Randomized' thread. This is totally random and waaay off topic.
 
As it appears to someone outside the community (like me) is that in the US, Orange gets a ton of classified, high profile intelligence ops. And CAG appears to be the go-to 'shooters of choice'. So, my question is, is it likely that Orange is in Waziristan (inside Pakistan by the Afghani border)? If so, why hasn't Bin Laden been heard from yet? And if we do find him, what would the most likely op plan to take him out be? Would a heavier unit like the 75th combined with CAG/DEVGRU be used, would it most likely be a cruise missile show, or would Paki SOF be used? Sorry, this is very random, but it peaked my interest the other day and thought I'd ask.
 
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Ehran       3/12/2008 12:19:05 PM
i'm sure that guy was DEA.
 
Dimwitted
Egotistical
A**clown
 
 
 
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static       3/21/2008 4:19:39 AM


No they use 1911's customised by Larry Vickers, he also customises HK45's

Man things get SLOW here during the school year.  Hey Mough you sure do seem to know the right people... what exactly do/did you do?  I understand that it is probably very hush-hush and that you can't answer, but I thought I would ask anyway.

GOP here is my lowly PS assessment.  I would say that farming it out to the Pakistanis outright would be out of the picture, as the risk of intelligence leaks would be pretty high, especially given the political sentiments there at the moment.  If he was on the surface (i.e. not in a cave) maybe a predator or cruise missile.  The thing is we would probably want to send someone up there anyway to retrieve the body or make confirmation for the political dog and pony show back home.  This might be some Group or Team 6 guys, or ex-T1 people under contract with the CIA.  The terrain is pretty rough so I would imagine you are looking at someone with military time, maybe led around by Pakistani "advisers" or something to that effect.

Total guesswork, but that would be my take.
 
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kensohaski       3/25/2008 3:54:30 PM



Let me give an insight view as I 've been in the SpecOps .



The US Navy Seals are not as good than the SBS . Let 's be clear about it .

Duplex hasn 't been in the Specs or he wouldn 't write things like :



""The best Special Force for operations in coastal environment

1-US Navy Seals 2-SBS""



I rate the Italian COMSUBIN and the French Commando Hubert as the best
combat divers of all . The SBS are very good at beach intel gathering
and penetration  , they 're on a par with sabotage . The Navy
Seals are not even in the top 5 .

(Italian , French , British , Spanish , Grecs)



or :

""The best in Jungle

1- Army Green Berets 2-SAS.""



The best in the jungle is the French Foreign Legion , and miles ahead .
Their Guyana course is legendary amongst Specialists . They ~the
Others~ all come to see what is all about and they go back enlighted
and disgusted .



or :

""The best in  the desert

 SAS,SAS,SAS, and only SAS""



Since 1990 , the SAS has been training 99% of its time in desert ground , in preperation of GW1 . They still keep training .

I have to say that the Israeli Sayeret Matkal are the second best in desert .



or :

""The best in counterterrorism

 1-SAS,2-DELTA,3-Navy Seal""



It depends what you call counterterrorism . If you 're talking about
assault on terrorist cells or hostage rescue , the French GIGN is still
the yardstick . The SAS follow very close . DELTA and SWAT are good too
on US soil .

I base my opinion on what I 've learned , who I spoke to , who I trained with and the rumors amongst Units .



Cheers .
















Bluewings, I find it funny that you say that the French GIGN are the best at assault on terrorist cells and HR...seeing as you are French .

 

Let's just make it official: The Teams suck balls at just about everything.

CAG is not allowed to operate in the US. Now, I realize that you have been in SOF and probably have heard rumors or something similar of them operating in the US, but I can almost guarantee you they don't. There is no need for them, as FBI HRT are equivalant to CAG with the only difference being that HRT is geared toward Law Enforcement ROE's and CAG's obviously have much more aggressive military ROE's. What unit would you say "SWAT" is? US "SWAT" teams come in every shape, size, and experience level imaginable. My local SWAT team (I live in a small town of about 7,000) trains 8 hours a month, and are only a part time team...also, not much action around my city at all (to say the very, very least), so they aren't exactly on top of their game. Now, a unit like LAPD SWAT or Dallas SWAT are completely full time, have very, very stringent selection processes, and see a TON of action...those guys are very near Tier 1 level, if not Tier 1. 


Tim McViegh was in Spec Ops for a short time too....
 
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GOP       3/25/2008 4:42:02 PM






Let me give an insight view as I 've been in the SpecOps .



The US Navy Seals are not as good than the SBS . Let 's be clear about it .

Duplex hasn 't been in the Specs or he wouldn 't write things like :



""The best Special Force for operations in coastal environment


1-US Navy Seals 2-SBS""



I rate the Italian COMSUBIN and the French Commando Hubert as the best
combat divers of all . The SBS are very good at beach intel gathering
and penetration  , they 're on a par with sabotage . The Navy
Seals are not even in the top 5 .

(Italian , French , British , Spanish , Grecs)



or :

""The best in Jungle


1- Army Green Berets 2-SAS.""



The best in the jungle is the French Foreign Legion , and miles ahead .
Their Guyana course is legendary amongst Specialists . They ~the
Others~ all come to see what is all about and they go back enlighted
and disgusted .



or :

""The best in  the desert


 SAS,SAS,SAS, and only SAS""



Since 1990 , the SAS has been training 99% of its time in desert ground , in preperation of GW1 . They still keep training .

I have to say that the Israeli Sayeret Matkal are the second best in desert .



or :

""The best in counterterrorism


 1-SAS,2-DELTA,3-Navy Seal""



It depends what you call counterterrorism . If you 're talking about
assault on terrorist cells or hostage rescue , the French GIGN is still
the yardstick . The SAS follow very close . DELTA and SWAT are good too
on US soil .

I base my opinion on what I 've learned , who I spoke to , who I trained with and the rumors amongst Units .



Cheers .






















Bluewings, I find it funny that you say that the French GIGN are the best at assault on terrorist cells and HR...seeing as you are French .



 



Let's just make it official: The Teams suck balls at just about everything.



CAG is not allowed to operate in the US. Now, I realize that you have been in SOF and probably have heard rumors or something similar of them operating in the US, but I can almost guarantee you they don't. There is no need for them, as FBI HRT are equivalant to CAG with the only difference being that HRT is geared toward Law Enforcement ROE's and CAG's obviously have much more aggressive military ROE's. What unit would you say "SWAT" is? US "SWAT" teams come in every shape, size, and experience level imaginable. My local SWAT team (I live in a small town of about 7,000) trains 8 hours a month, and are only a part time team...also, not much action around my city at all (to say the very, very least), so they aren't exactly on top of their game. Now, a unit like LAPD SWAT or Dallas SWAT are completely full time, have very, very stringent selection processes, and see a TON of action...those guys are very near Tier 1 level, if not Tier 1. 




Tim McViegh was in Spec Ops for a short time too....


My question: Wtf is "Spec ops"?
 
Im not questioning BW's background, but when he writes things like "I was in SpecOps" or "He is not in the Specs" I get curious.
 
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JFKY       3/25/2008 4:59:13 PM
My vote goes to the Andorian Special Commandos.
 
Alternatively it is obvious the best group is whomsoever the poster thinks is the best and from that conviction they can never be shaken!
 
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GOP       3/26/2008 1:18:28 AM

My vote goes to the Andorian Special Commandos.

 

Alternatively it is obvious the best group is whomsoever the poster thinks is the best and from that conviction they can never be shaken!



Haha, nice.
 
It all comes down to the individual. Guys like Horse, Bob, and Mough know this first hand.
 
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