Note: F16 is also a formidable air to air fighter! Don't dicount it!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please, PLEASE, I hope that's what Russia, the PRC, etc. actually think about the F-22. I've rarely read a more misinformed opinion on this board. Tomas, Riccioni has rightfully been shot down on multiple occasions on this board. Furthermore, his crappy analysis dates from 1999 as I recall, and some has already been OBE'd. I don't know ANY professional who thinks anything other than the F-22 will KICK ASS, and that it beats out the Rafale (much less the even more inferior FLANKER family) in every aerodynamic performance category--so even in the eventuality that some good old close-range dogfighting is called for the F-22 is still superior. Granted, everyone I know is in the USAF, so maybe we're biased.... ;-) Displacedjim

Tomas,Tomas,Tomas...Where do you get this stuff. The F22 was originaly designed as a cold warrior...Against guess who....The F22 was designed to be upgradeable throughout its 30 yr plus life span, the avonics package is not even the same one you mentioned. By the time you can eyeball a plane your usualy dead. If you install more active search radar, your dead, See above. Stealth allows you to find the other guy before he finds you...Everyone that has flown the F22's have the same opinion after landing...WOW...There's nothing like it, nore will there be for 15 or 20 yrs. I'll take 2 F22's and give you a dozen migs....Want to see what happens. I would even give a Rafale a 2 to 1 advantage against migs. The US will build at least 200 F22's, probably 500 by the end of production depending on world events and AI advancements....

Thomas made a VERY good point about the validity of F-22 . Why F-22 ? He explained why : "the cult of stealth" On the other hand , F-22 have shown that it is an excellent dogfighter , if not the best . Cheers .

There was one complaint pilots had about the F-22. I've heard the first time they do an aerial refuel, they always overshoot the mark. Seems that the F-22 has such low drag that simply reducing the throttle doesn't slow it down near as fast as other aircraft. They have to reduce the throttle a lot sooner. Nice problem to have ;)

I think I would not normally have been quite that rude, but unless I am mistaken I think I remember Tomas popping up before with a similar comment, and I know that over the last several months there have been a steady trickle of others who pop in with Riccioni's five-year-old paper and cry, "See, F-22 sucks, it says so right here!" Displacedjim

If you think that the Su-27 out-maneuvers the "lumbering F-22" you're out of your mind kid. The F-22 will beat anything out there and the MiG-2000 or whatever the hell its called is just a paper plane.

French don't mention publickly their exact performance of missiles especially in range.I have already in this site a demonstration that Mica range was similar of AM120C but unfortunately previous internet pages mentioned ABOVE 60 km.But I find this interesting link from EADS: "From 1980 onwards, Matra began a development programme for a new short- and long-range air-to-air missile (up to 80 km) to equip the Mirage 2000 and the Rafale combat aircraft. It was called Mica (Missile mixte de combat et d’interception – combined engagement and interception missile). Production began in 1996. " http://www.eads.net/frame/lang/en/1024/content/OF00000000400004/9/26/548269.html

"Cult of stealth?" I couldn't disagree more. The designers weren't stupid. This isn't a lumbering B-2 or a limited F-117. This thing is blazing fast, and has excellent SA. The pilot knows what's happening around him, and nobody else can even touch him without entering a small radius bubble around him. The area he can touch is huge by comparison. If things get too hairy, it can run like a bat out of hell. Can't touch this... Stealth was a driving factor. It was NOT the only factor. It's easy to dismiss the F-22 as another American stealth project. It's not. Fighter projects get written up by fighter pilots. Fighter pilots, want something that'll win even without stealth. Even if a magical radar system were to completely negate stealth in the future, the F-22 would still be the most dangerous opponent out there.

Quote : "Even if a magical radar system were to completely negate stealth in the future, the F-22 would still be the most dangerous opponent out there." maybe not ... Cheers .