Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Fighters, Bombers and Recon Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Su-37 vs. F-22
TankFREAK    11/3/2005 5:39:49 PM
Which do you think is better? The F-22 has stealth features (not completely stealth) and the Su-37 has super-maunverability on it's side (front canards+thrust vectoring). No doubt if there was no stealth and it was an actual dog fight, the Su-37 would undoubtly win. But how effective the F-22's stealth is not completely verified. IMO, i would say that the Su-37 'Terminator' is better, as it has supermanuverability (it can perform the world-reknowned kulbit, which is basically doing a somersault within it's own length). If we knew more about how effective the stealth is on the F-22, i might sway my decision, but at least for the time being, i say the Su-37 is better. What's your take on this?
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: PREV  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9   NEXT
psyclops    RE:The Winner is...   11/4/2005 9:49:52 AM
The problem with supermaneuverability, TF, is that it's not all it's cracked up to be. Sure, it looks great at air shows and can help you get off a runway in a hurry, but it's no match for a couple of Slammers. Before air-to-air missiles could pull 30g on a regular basis, being able to somersault in your own length looked like a good idea. (Not that that particular maneuver would help much against a missile, but as a measure of agility, it's helpful.) But the days of close-in cannon shots are virtually gone, and if you get yourself in a furball dogfight with another air superiority fighter, something's gone very wrong. Even at close range, I'm doubtful that you'll be able to do much against helmet-mounted cueing systems and the new round of dogfight missiles. Not to say there's no place for good maneuverability anymore, but as the previous posts have wittily made clear, the edge goes to the fighter with superior avionics and standoff kill capability, not superior maneuverability. A fighter (manned, at least) will never be able to outmaneuver a missile salvo.
 
Quote    Reply

capt soap    RE:The Winner is...   11/4/2005 10:02:03 AM
The su has slow speed supermaneuverability,and the f/a-22 has 99% of the same slow speed ability,but also has high speed supermaneuverability. The su doesnt have the same high speed abilties.
 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica    Sudden Death   11/4/2005 10:43:44 AM
Since the F-22 will be very likely to carry a laser DEW(2010+) in addition to its integrated DEW capability. What difference does it make to pull 9G, somersault or any other airshow stunt when the weapon firing at you is moving at light speed and can be fired in a 120+ degree arc! Also since no plane in the world is likely to even know an F-22 is in the air, why would it be manuvering? Should the F-22 decline combat for some reason. How is the SU-37 going to pursue it?
 
Quote    Reply

Pseudonym    Even if the F-22 wasn't Stealth   11/4/2005 4:24:58 PM
I'll take the US pilot over anyone flying Russian gear.
 
Quote    Reply

TankFREAK    To shooter   11/4/2005 4:58:29 PM
Um, dude the F-22 couldn't outmanuver the Su-37 if its life depended on it. Seriously, the F-22 was designed to be first look, first shot, first kill, not dogfight superiority. The Su-37 is all about manuverability. Plus, the F-22 sux compared the the Su-37 at ALL SPEEDS. Link: http://www.area51zone.com/aircraft/f22.shtml It says right there, as well as on many other sites that the F-22 is clearly not as manuverable as a Su-37. I don't know what anybodies thinking if they say the F-22 can manuver better than the F-22. THe F-22 is designed for stealth, the Su is designed for manuverability, all i'm asking in this post is to balance out manuverability and stealth to give your opinion on which is better.
 
Quote    Reply

skrip00    RE:to TankFREAK   11/4/2005 5:42:40 PM
Excuse me if i dont consider area51zone.com a reliable source. But last time i checked, the F/A-22 has a higher T-W ratio than the Su-37 with TVC. In addition to which, shooter is right about the canards and such bein fixes for problems. To be honest, the Russians tried to slap some toys onto a fighter and call it superior. When in reality they are very behind.
 
Quote    Reply

USN-MID    RE:To shooter   11/4/2005 5:48:45 PM
First off "dude" calm down a second. Even though this site is nowhere near the gold standard(maybe bronze, or copper...) of military strategy, it's filled with some knowledgeable people. Fact is, you're referencing a site called area51zone. I've been there, looked at it for about 2 minutes, and realized it was pretty much a FAS clone. And FAS is rife with inaccuracy itself so... Point is, the F-22 IS a true stealth aircraft, regardless of what your "sources" may have led you to believe. Just b/c it doesn't look all oddly shaped doesn't mean it's not stealth. We've gone way past the basic diamond faceting Skunk Works came up with back in the day. Also, referencing maneuverability, nobody can give you a true honest figure on the two in comparison. The reason is security clearances, and you don't have one. The REAL hard engineering data on the F-22 is classified, meaning we don't have access to vital information such as Thrust to Weight, physical vs. software induced AoA limits, roll rate, a turn rate diagram to detail the ability to turn at different speeds and altitudes, and finally, there just isn't enough good hearsay on the matter as it hasn't flown in combat. What we DO know is that its stealth is at a level where it has been beating down F-15Cs regularly, and F-15Cs have among the most powerful air to air radars out there. Second, test videos, while they offer very limited hard data, offer a general picture of the F-22's maneuverability, and it is good. Really, really, sickeningly good. Looks like the TVC paid off. But to top it all off, stealth wins. Maneuverability is not a defense against a BVR missile fired in no escape parameters. That's why it's called "no escape." That's BEFORE you consider other advantages like supercruise, or the EW capabilities.
 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica    RE:Su-37 vs. F-22 - All   11/4/2005 7:06:13 PM
I have a video of an F-22 taking off. The chase plane(F-16) is in clean configuration and in flight. The F-22 litterally jumped off the ground accelerated into a vertical climb right past the F-16 and made it look as if it wasnt even moving when it passed. I wrote all that to say that the T/W ratio must be really damn high. Now of course I dont know how much fuel was onboard but still.
 
Quote    Reply

capt soap    RE:Su-37 vs. F-22 - All   11/4/2005 11:22:34 PM
Darth; Show us the video. Please
 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica    RE:Su-37 vs. F-22 - All   11/4/2005 11:40:05 PM
Here you go! Capt Soap, give me a little feed back if you are able to download this. I have a few more flicks I'd like to share including a off road joy ride me and a couple of buddies took in a Hummer, a runaway .50 cal MG, a close encounter I had with an F/A-18 and your truly firing some weapons including the 120mm M256. I cleaned up a bit and I found a bunch of old media. I'm trying to digitize it where possible and I'd like to share.
 
Quote    Reply
PREV  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9   NEXT



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics