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Subject: Harrier GR.7 - second query regarding fake cannon pods...
DropBear    6/30/2006 3:47:19 AM

Was astonished to read that as well as the GR.5 and GR.5A spending the first part of their service lives "non combat capable", I was surprised to find that the GR.7 variant has no 25mm cannon in the ventral pods.

Why bother adding weight to the airframe if no gun has been installed???

Increases drag and fuel consumption.

Even the Harrier GR.9 mods look a tad lame.

Is this remarkable situation down to Blue Suiters or the civil neddies?

Curious.
 
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Lawman    RE:Harrier GR.7 - second query regarding fake cannon pods...   6/30/2006 5:08:01 AM
Not having cannon was one of the worst ideas in defense procurement, especially given the compelling evidence of the effectiveness of cannon. It was particularly bad in Sierra Leone, where the Harriers could not drop bombs (too much bang) or fire missiles, since what was often called for was a warning shot. The problem was that the Harriers were not fitted with cannon, so could not carry out simple strafing runs, which would have been very helpful. The 25mm Aden cannon was intended to be used on the GR-5/7s, but development problems led to cancellation, and the government decided to 'save money', as usual. They probably should have simply bought the USMC 25mm GAU-12 pods, or possibly just reused the 30mm cannon from the GR-3s.
 
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DropBear    RE:Harrier GR.7 - second query regarding fake cannon pods...   6/30/2006 10:20:43 AM
Yeah, but why keep the pods attached to all the GR.7's? Why not remove them?
 
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Lawman    RE:Harrier GR.7 - second query regarding fake cannon pods...   6/30/2006 10:46:31 AM
Well, applying reason to what the MoD does is not going to get you far DB... I think those blank pods were intended to be a representative of the final 25mm Aden pod, but when that was dropped, they just kept using them (removing them makes it unstable). The USMC developed underbody strakes, which improve handling, to be carried when the cannon is not needed, but the RAF do not seem to use them (I may be wrong though).
 
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DropBear    RE:Harrier GR.7 - second query regarding fake cannon pods...   6/30/2006 10:56:48 AM
I know what you mean as I've seen the strakes, however, it seems that the RN trainer doesn't have them. Surely it can't be a stability thing as the shift in CofG would be far greater in the trainer than the GR.7 and the like. link
 
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stuuu28    RE:Harrier GR.7 - second query regarding fake cannon pods...   6/30/2006 6:23:13 PM
I think i read some were that it they they along with the flaps help trap the air underneath the aircraft making it act like a cushion when in hover mode. The pic you post is of a sea harrier trainer differnent to the harrier II( which was designed to always have the pods) that the gr5 and 7 are based on.
 
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giblets    RE:Harrier GR.7 - second query regarding fake cannon pods...   7/1/2006 5:06:42 AM
Seen a fair few GR5's with the strakes on instead of the Gun pods (including the prototype on its first flight), they are termed LIDS (Lift improvement devices), or CADS (Cushion augmentation devices) along with a retractable fence behind the nosewheel. Which you can see in this picture: link These apparently trap hot gasses whilst in the hover, and stop them being ingexsted into the engine which reduces thrust considerably). When close to the ground, the jet wash can come together inbetween the vertical jets of air and go upwards to the aircraft (which has a cushioning effect ), however, without the lids and the retractable damn, this can go forwards and into the engine inlet, reducing thrust The main reason for some early gr5's not having them? Cost! link
 
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giblets    RE:Harrier GR.7 - second query regarding fake cannon pods...   7/1/2006 5:22:27 AM
Not sure if that answered the question, but the Gun pods had a similar effect, and were designed with a strake/ LIDS design in mind, however, when it was found that they never really worked (overheating and the spent casings hitting the composite tailplane!). However it took ages to get the funding to replace these with the strakes Here you can see the forward 'dam' and the strake design of the gun pods. The Marines have a differnet design of pod tot he RAF (one gun with amo in the other pod) as opposed to two guns, one in each pod like the RAF) link
 
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