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Subject: Nano Air Vehicle
Softwar    6/2/2008 9:31:16 AM
Aviation Week & Space Technology
06/02/2008 , page 19

DARPA has awarded AeroVironment a $636,000 contract to build a flapping-wing UAV weighing less than 10 grams (0.35 oz.). The NAV (Nano Air Vehicle) program will use biologically inspired flapping wing designs to hover and fly indoors and outdoors while carrying a 2 gram payload.
 
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DarthAmerica       6/2/2008 11:13:05 AM
Imagine the implications when something like this becomes operational.
 
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Softwar    Son of Hellhound?   6/2/2008 1:55:19 PM
See The Hellhound Project by Ron Goulart....
 
Basically, a miniture RPV armed with poison.  The SC-FI story dates to 1973 when Goulart wrote a short for Analog magazine.  It was designed to be an assassin's weapon but one can see it used in large numbers on the battlefield for both sureveillance and attack.
 
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DarthAmerica       6/2/2008 3:21:42 PM
I like the idea of that. Especially against low tech insurgents. You could use something like this for a less intrusive ISR/Cordon and Search in an area like SADR City for instance. Most people wouldn't notice it at all. Then when a threat is identified the Nano-UAV could coordinate a strike/capture or kill the target itself. What would be awesome is if sensor data from these Nano-UAVs was made available on a network any Blue Force could monitor. A system like this would be really hard to defend against. I'm sure though if it used poison it would draw a lot of negative press. It would be labeled an assassins weapon.


-DA
 
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WarNerd       6/3/2008 2:28:03 AM
I wonder what the top speed will be?
 
This is a bit of a trick(y) question, because while there are some rules of thumb for predicting maximum practical speed vs. size, a number of insect species seem to have found ways to violate them.
 
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doggtag       6/3/2008 7:40:45 AM

. ..A system like this would be
really hard to defend against. I'm sure though if it used poison it
would draw a lot of negative press. It would be labeled an assassins
weapon.


-DA
Ah, but the catch here is,
how does the MSM, and anyone else not in the loop to have direct knowledge of the operation and use of "bugs",
how do any of them prove that the target in question wasn't just attacked by a stray insect and died of an adverse reaction to the "sting" or "bite" ?
 
Without the carcass of said nano-UAV bug that did the dirty deed (would need the victim's DNA on it to prove its guilt, as well as traces of some kind of poison or toxin contained within some sort of delivery mechanism like an artificial fang, stinger, or other injection device),
how then can accusors separate themselves from X-Files conspirators suggesting the government now has the tech to carry out assassinations with artificial insects?
 
Be very hard indeed to to prove entirely it wasn't Mother Nature and happenstance that killed the targeted individual: plenty of people die around the world each year do to spider bites, bee stings, ants, (not to mention Australia's notorious jack jumpers...).
 
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DarthAmerica       6/3/2008 8:46:42 AM



. ..A system like this would be
really hard to defend against. I'm sure though if it used poison it
would draw a lot of negative press. It would be labeled an assassins
weapon.


-DA

Ah, but the catch here is,
how does the MSM, and anyone else not in the loop to have direct knowledge of the operation and use of "bugs",

how do any of them prove that the target in question wasn't just attacked by a stray insect and died of an adverse reaction to the "sting" or "bite" ?

 

Without the carcass of said nano-UAV bug that did the dirty deed (would need the victim's DNA on it to prove its guilt, as well as traces of some kind of poison or toxin contained within some sort of delivery mechanism like an artificial fang, stinger, or other injection device),

how then can accusors separate themselves from X-Files conspirators suggesting the government now has the tech to carry out assassinations with artificial insects?

 

Be very hard indeed to to prove entirely it wasn't Mother Nature and happenstance that killed the targeted individual: plenty of people die around the world each year do to spider bites, bee stings, ants, (not to mention Australia's notorious jack jumpers...).


You always have to factor in murphy with things like this. Anytime you penetrate into hostile territory there is always a chance of compromise re: Mc Nabb, Desert One, F-117A, CPT O'Grady ect. It happens. Then there is the slippery slope of others doing the same thing to you. All modern nations could use Bio/Chem weapons to deal with a lot of problems but agree not to so as not to have to deal with retaliation. Not saying there aren't black operations but extreme discretion and judgment is required prior to use.


-DA

 
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Softwar       6/3/2008 8:54:42 AM






You always have to factor in murphy with things like this. Anytime you penetrate into hostile territory there is always a chance of compromise re: Mc Nabb, Desert One, F-117A, CPT O'Grady ect. It happens. Then there is the slippery slope of others doing the same thing to you. All modern nations could use Bio/Chem weapons to deal with a lot of problems but agree not to so as not to have to deal with retaliation. Not saying there aren't black operations but extreme discretion and judgment is required prior to use.


-DA
Bulgarian dissident Georgi Markov, murdered with a poison-filled pellet shot into his leg (possibly with a converted "umbrella gun") at a bus stop in Britain in 1978.  The poison in question was Ricin.
 
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FJV       6/3/2008 11:03:04 AM
I guess it might be sensitive to wind or flyswatters.



 
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Herald12345    Or random radio noise......    6/3/2008 2:12:34 PM

I guess it might be sensitive to wind or flyswatters.




 that interferes with the microelectronics.

Herald.
 
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Herald12345    Follow up.   6/3/2008 2:51:28 PM
Microwave burst generators bother me as a countermeasure to insect-sized micro-bots.

Herald

 
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DarthAmerica       6/3/2008 7:22:57 PM









You always have to factor in murphy with things like this. Anytime you penetrate into hostile territory there is always a chance of compromise re: Mc Nabb, Desert One, F-117A, CPT O'Grady ect. It happens. Then there is the slippery slope of others doing the same thing to you. All modern nations could use Bio/Chem weapons to deal with a lot of problems but agree not to so as not to have to deal with retaliation. Not saying there aren't black operations but extreme discretion and judgment is required prior to use.


-DA


Bulgarian dissident Georgi Markov, murdered with a poison-filled pellet shot into his leg (possibly with a converted "umbrella gun") at a bus stop in Britain in 1978.  The poison in question was Ricin.

I actually have a VHS tape recording of a special that covered that assassination. It was some cable show called spies  or something. Back in the bad old days. IIRC the US and USSR used to make understandings on how to do things like this to avoid it getting out of hand and causing intel service wars(spy vs spy) and absolutely prevent the targeting of government leaders. I agree there could be "special" exceptions to policy. There always are.

-DA
 
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FJV       6/4/2008 10:03:31 AM
I have a hunch that electronic warfare might end up a bigger thing than stealth in the future anyway.





 
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Nichevo       6/5/2008 4:05:22 PM

 Back in the bad old days. IIRC the US and USSR used to make understandings on how to do things like this to avoid it getting out of hand and causing intel service wars(spy vs spy) and absolutely prevent the targeting of government leaders. I agree there could be "special" exceptions to policy. There always are.

-DA
You mean, like polonium and Litvinenko?

Our problem is the media/culture/political climate.  (We don't have a mute button on the press like Putin/Medvedev) 

Any wet work or other dirty deeds is off the table, it seems.  Too bad, because IMHO assassination of one is far more moral than a war with millions dead.

 
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