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Subject: Best All-Around Fighter of World War II
sentinel28a    10/13/2009 3:38:03 PM
Let's try a non-controversial topic, shall we? (Heh heh.) I'll submit the P-51 for consideration. BW and FS, if you come on here and say that the Rafale was the best fighter of WWII, I am going to fly over to France and personally beat you senseless with Obama's ego. (However, feel free to talk about the D.520.)
 
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45-Shooter    Part two!   7/18/2013 6:20:07 PM


Ahahahahahahahahahahahahah!
 
Its a 109F4 with MG 17s and MG151/20!
Which picture are you talking about?         


 
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marat,jean       7/18/2013 11:28:00 PM
Stupid comments by Stewie already discredited.
 
Not enough room, one called Shooter. 
 
 
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marat,jean       7/18/2013 11:32:32 PM
All lies. Hint... Bullet drop, Stewie.





 



I've known it for about a month, certain, Stewart, the claim I was in Vietnam, claim I know aviation, the claim I am a scientist liar. It wasn't hard to find you at all.



 



Stardestroyer.net keeps good records.





















Just to make a point, last Wednesday, I went to the range and fired my HS Citation .22 and several, 3 each .45s at 100 yards range, getting 27 hits out of 30 shots fired with the .22 on the paper, 15 of which were inside the scoring rings. On that same target, because I am too lazy to walk there and back to change targets, I fired 15 rounds of .45 from my custom made race gun over iron sights, for 13 hits on paper, seven of which were inside the scoring rings. While that may not seem like a big deal, I fired all of those shots in single magazine strings, rapid fire! That is less than two seconds between shots! On the second target, I used two hide out guns, a P-12 and a Firestar .45 on the second target, also rapid fire. I got, if you count one that cut the edge, 10 hits on paper and five inside the scoring rings!
NOW, the best part. They were both standard "NRA official 50 ft. Timed and Rapid Fire Pistol Targets! Made by Alco Target Company, Licence No. 32! That Target is 10.5" by 12" wide and tall and the 6 ring is 8-5/16" in diameter, while the bull, that part of the target that is black as an aim point is 3-1/16" OD! You see, I am too cheap to buy different targets for different ranges and use the same target for almost all of my practice shooting, every Wednesday with the same group of 20-25 guys. This Sunday, tomorrow if you read this late, I will go again and will post the targets on line, just to make you envious. But the worst part of this all is that I have Agent Orange causing muscle tremors and I can no longer shoot as I did way back when I argued at Startdestroyer.net

 

 
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oldbutnotwise       7/19/2013 3:39:06 AM
shooter, could you please explain this,
Distance between prop spinner and cockpit - 1780mm
I get 2,248 mm for this distance. So please explain how you got that dimension?
Me 109K blueprints - but we know your measuring skills dont we - sorry to say that, despite what your Girl friend says that is NOT 6 inches

That is between the back of the instrument panel, just in front of the lower edge of the windshield and the back edge of the panel behind the spinner.  
length of mg151/15 1955mm
Wiki states 1,916 mm? ( For the 15 mm version!)
I think the flash guard may be the discrepency
 
just how do you get that to fit?
Use the new space in the K model airframe?
we are talking Ks and they wont
 
especially as they would need staggering
Since they do not stagger any of the other guns in those positions, why would you think they would require it now!
excuse me I thought you knew guns and 109s? and you claim they didnt stagger them? this alone shows that you are not at  knowledgable as you think
 
 
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45-Shooter       7/26/2013 1:27:45 AM

   
just how do you get that to fit?
See above!
 
Use the new space in the K model airframe?
we are talking Ks and they wontYou are wrong!

excuse me I thought you knew guns and 109s? and you claim they didnt stagger them? this alone shows that you are not at  knowledgable as you thinkMaybe it shows that you do not know as much as you think. See the pics posted before that show the three guns mounted to the firewall WO the engine-etc. Not that none of the guns are staggered!
 

 



 
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marat,jean       7/26/2013 1:36:51 AM
Same tired lies repeated by the man, Stewart Davies.
 
reminder of who Davies IS.
 
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45-Shooter    Cpt Eric Brown quote!   7/26/2013 1:45:00 AM

Talking about aircraft attributes in his last interview! Exact quotes from Captain Eric Brown, one of the world's most renown pilots;
"In air combat, the most important thing is to have a high rate-of-roll - if you have that, you start off with an advantage."
"For an example. if we have a Spitfire fighting a Focke-Wulf Fw 190, the Spitfire's disadvantage is that it rate of roll is way below that of the Fw 190. With a high rate-of-roll, you can be very evasive in combat maneuvers."
"The Spitfire had a poor Rate-of-roll compared with most of the German aircraft, and therefore had to rely largely on it's maneuverability and tight turning circle."
If you do not like my assessment, what do you think of Captain Brown's opinion?
 
 
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marat,jean       7/26/2013 9:08:06 AM
Not much, since that is not what air combat shows.
 
His AIR COMBAT experience was very limited. (Audacity and a few escort  missions over France) He was a TEST PILOT mostly involved with compressibility testing and postwar enemy equipment evaluations. 
 
For TRUE operational experience that means anything to me about aircraft maneuver quality. 
 
 

" With Préziosi, we had taken off to protect the small train station of Soukinovichi located near the front. All of a sudden, an interpreter came on the radio, announcing that an enemy reconnaissance airplane was taking photos of the train station. Looking in the direction of the station, I spotted a twin boom airplane, probably a Focke-Wulf 189. I rocked my wings to alert Préziosi, we had radio, but we seldom used it. The " Fritz " never saw us coming, and after we shot at him, he performed a reversed turn, coming very close to us. The airplane had lost the cone of its center cockpit; one of its engines was stopped and full of holes.
We followed him for a while and I could smell the odor of burnt varnish as we flew behind him . We abandoned him at an altitude of about 50 meters and Préziosi and I flew on home. Photos taken of the FW-189's airdrome by the Russians that very morning showed 12 airplanes on the field. In the evening, as they again took photos, there was one airplane less, and that fact confirmed our victory."
 
That would be Marcel Albert talking about the FW 189 he reversed upon and shot down in a turning maneuver ambush.
 
So while "Winkle" has definite things to say, anyone who thinks the F4F was a delight to fly against Zeros is a few combat experience points short in qualifications.
 
I would prefer to refer to the men who FOUGHT.
 
 
These are the rules.
 
"See him first. Get behind him. Shoot close. Get out. All the rest is nonsense."   
 
 
 
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45-Shooter       7/30/2013 1:05:12 AM

http://www.searchquotes.com/quotation/See%2C_decide%2C_attack%2C_reverse./406819/">See, decide, attack, reverse.</a> <em>" With Préziosi, we had taken off to protect the small train station of Soukinovichi located near the front. All of a sudden, an interpreter came on the radio, announcing that an enemy reconnaissance airplane was taking photos of the train station. Looking in the direction of the station, I spotted a twin boom airplane, probably a Focke-Wulf 189. I rocked my wings to alert Préziosi, we had radio, but we seldom used it. The " Fritz " never saw us coming, and after we shot at him, he performed a reversed turn, coming very close to us. The airplane had lost the cone of its center cockpit; one of its engines was stopped and full of holes. <br /></em> <br /> <em style="color: red;">We followed him for a while and I could smell the odor of burnt varnish as we flew behind him</em> <br /> <em>. We abandoned him at an altitude of about 50 meters and Préziosi and I flew on home. Photos taken of the FW-189" s="" airdrome="" by="" the="" russians="" that="" very="" morning="" showed="" 12="" airplanes="" on="" field.="">
In the evening, as they again took photos, there was one airplane less, and that fact confirmed our victory."
   
That would be Marcel Albert talking about the FW 189 he reversed upon and shot down in a turning maneuver ambush.
   
So while "Winkle" has definite things to say, anyone who thinks the F4F was a delight to fly against Zeros is a few combat experience points short in qualifications.
   
I would prefer to refer to the men who FOUGHT.
   
These are the rules.
   
"See him first. Get behind him. Shoot close. Get out. All the rest is nonsense."   
Why would you take anything this guy states that disagrees with anything EBH says seriously?
NOTE that I stated anything that disagrees with what EBH states!   
 

 




 
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45-Shooter    PS./ Part II.   7/30/2013 1:08:56 AM

So while "Winkle" has definite things to say, anyone who thinks the F4F was a delight to fly against Zeros is a few combat experience points short in qualifications.
Given the K/L ratio of the two planes, I would tend to agree with Captain Brown!   
I would prefer to refer to the men who FOUGHT.
That is why I would agree with Captain Brown, he agrees with very many men and a few women who fought and won! 



 
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